Anyone ever used a Nail Bar?

[Sam Spoons]

Yes, having looked at the density of various metals (is that my anorak over there ) typical guitar string materials can vary significantly, as much as 20%, and stainless steel (for cores and plain strings) by 8% so that could easily account for the differences in mass/tension of similar gauge strings.

[Freelance Subversive]

My experience of the Bumblebee thumb pick was that it was a good idea let down by poor execution. The pick part is a cheap/soft nylon which is next to useless IMO.

I use 13-56 strings too, but low tension and play in alternative tunings. I very rarely suffer any nail issues, so perhaps in that combination they aren’t quite as destructive.

I'm curious where you find low tension 13-56 strings? AFAIK the tension of a string is purely dependent on mass (mostly determined by it's diameter), scale length and pitch. Do you mean it's low tension because you tune/use tunings that are below standard pitch (I have an old dread strung with 13-56 so I can tune it one or two semitones down without it sounding flabby)?

They are Newtone strings, with a round core and lower wrap number than is conventional. You’ve already noted that their sets are differently balanced, but also manufacturing tolerances for the materials. Naturally playing in alternative tunings will impact the tension, although normally it’s DAdgad, so not that far removed from standard tuning.

My tech always checks the top deflection during services, because they’re cedar tops and painless bridges. Switching to the custom Newtone set, he noted less deflection when compared to the similar set of D’addario I’d been using and a change of neck relief, which had been stable for many years. Not very scientific, but in conjunction with the looser feel of plain strings, I’ll accept the individual strings are likely lower tension.

[Sam Spoons]

The G, D and A are significantly thinner than a 'normal' 13's set and different materials densities would make up the rest of the difference but I can't help thinking just using a lighter gauge would get you the same benefits. But Newtone strings are not expensive so why not... I'll definitely give them a try next time...

[merlyn]

What I need is to be gene edited to grow a nylon index fingernail. I'd pay good money for that I tell ya!

The closest you'll get to that is the guitar player nails fishnish linked:

https://guitarplayernails.com/

These are different from nail bar nails in that they don't cover the whole nail -- only 1/3 to 1/2. I haven't tried them myself but for your purposes they look worth a go.

[Albatross]

Very interesting and perhaps exactly the type of thing I'm looking for... many thanks.

[Guest]

Since this thread has started I have broken two nails, so much for them being hard as hell.

[Guest]

Just lost another one on a bag of onions ffs.

This thread is a jinx, haven’t broken a nail for ages before this.

[Albatross]

I won't post my next thread then, it was going to be "Has anyone ever used Viagra."

[adrian_k]

[Wonks]

I won't post my next thread then, it was going to be "Has anyone ever used Viagra."

Why not? Don’t let others put you off. You should stick up for yourself.

[Freelance Subversive]

The G, D and A are significantly thinner than a 'normal' 13's set and different materials densities would make up the rest of the difference…

That should have read “pinless bridge”.

Mine are custom sets: 13, 17, 25, 35, 45, 57; round core, phosphor bronze. They’re not significantly different dimensions to the conventional set.

Last night I compared a fresh set of Newtone and D’addario non-coated Phosphor Bronze 13s, on two Lowden cedar top O models (a 1988 S22 and 2004 23), both of which previously had the NT set. As well as I could, on each I compared the old NT plain strings with fresh D’addario’s; then those with fresh NTs on the 22 model, using the same number of wraps around the tuner post on each. Even though well stretched, I can’t exclude the likelihood that being new has a fair impact on their feel. I also can’t exclude the D’addario’s not suiting those guitars particularly; they and Elixir always felt too stiff.

On the 23, for approx. 10 mins I played exercises, then melodies along the existing NT plain strings, then full arrangements across all to assess their apparent tension. Once changed to Ds and thoroughly stretched for 5 mins, I repeated the same exercises, melodies and arrangements; likewise on the S22. With a short break, I repeated again regularly switching between the two models. On the S22 I put a fresh set of NT with the same MO, played them in for 20-30 mins to compensate and after a short break compared each guitar.

Allowing for manufacturing tolerances of both the strings and guitars, there does indeed appear to be a significant difference in feel between the NT and D. The NTs when brought to pitch, seem to produce an extra wrap around the tuner post. On the NTs 13, I can bend up by 5 semi-tones with ease; whereas the Ds 13 just shy of 2 tones with some difficulty. Tentatively I’m satisfied the NT strings of similar gauge are lower tension.

…I can't help thinking just using a lighter gauge would get you the same benefit..

Not really, that would only solve the tension issue. The additional mass of larger gauges very much affects pitch stability, feel and tone, especially with alternative lower tunings.

[Wonks]

Newtone strings have round core wires, whilst the D'Addarios have a hex core. The wraps don't grip the core anywhere near as tightly on round core strings, so the core and wrap move over each other when tensioned or bent. Which means that you are proportionally tensioning the core a lot more than the wrap on round core strings, whereas with a hex core, the wrap grips the core and doesn't move much at all (if any), so it feels a lot firmer.

The round core strings are 'swaged' at the non-ball end, with a flattened section of core wire for the wrap to grip to. Never cut off a round core string to length before putting a good 90° bend in the string, otherwise the wrap will slip over the core, and you can get uneven mass/unit length and intonation issues. Put the string through the tuner hole, measure the wind length, put a good bend in the string, wind the string on and only then cut the excess off.

GHS strings are also round core, so if using those on vintage Fender style slotted tuners with a hole in the posts, again put the bend in the string at the point it will poke into the hole before cutting the end of the string off. This hex/round core difference also affects the tone of the string.

Hex core strings are generally toppier, with round core strings having a more full low-end in comparison.

[Sam Spoons]

Allowing for manufacturing tolerances of both the strings and guitars, there does indeed appear to be a significant difference in feel between the NT and D. The NTs when brought to pitch, seem to produce an extra wrap around the tuner post. On the NTs 13, I can bend up by 5 semi-tones with ease; whereas the Ds 13 just shy of 2 tones with some difficulty. Tentatively I’m satisfied the NT strings of similar gauge are lower tension.

…I can't help thinking just using a lighter gauge would get you the same benefit..

Not really, that would only solve the tension issue. The additional mass of larger gauges very much affects pitch stability, feel and tone, especially with alternative lower tunings.

The tension of the string (as opposed to the feel) is purely determined by the mass, scale length and pitch, you can't have additional mass without additional tension. If the NT strings really are lower tension they must have lower mass, that is inescapable. Whether the strings feel softer is a different matter but you can't change the laws of physics.

[Wonks]

But change the wrap alloy density and you can have the same diameter string with more or less mass. Change the mass/unit length and the tension that's required to achieve the same frequency also changes.

So don't believe it's not possible, as it is.

And string feel has a lot to do with our perception of whether the string feels like it's higher or lower tension (as does the string action height) and so the effort needed to fret the string.

[Sam Spoons]

But change the wrap alloy density and you can have the same diameter string with more or less mass. Change the mass/unit length and the tension that's required to achieve the same frequency also changes.

So don't believe it's not possible, as it is.

Yes, no argument, D'addario wound strings (.056" gauge) vary in mass by 10% between Nickel wound and Phosphor Bronze. Plus changing the core to wrap ratio will also alter the mass for a given diameter.

And string feel has a lot to do with our perception of whether the string feels like it's higher or lower tension (as does the string action height) and so the effort needed to fret the string.

We are singing from the same hymn sheet here Wonky.

[Guest]

I won't post my next thread then, it was going to be "Has anyone ever used Viagra."

Why not? Don’t let others put you off. You should stick up for yourself.

Be more like a Hard Man, is that what you are saying?

[Arpangel]

I was wondering why such a straightforward topic was going on for so many pages, now I know why.

[resistorman]

I was wondering why such a straightforward topic was going on for so many pages, now I know why.

Classic SOS Forum rabbit hole

[ManFromGlass]

I won't post my next thread then, it was going to be "Has anyone ever used Viagra."

I’ll stick to nylon picks, thanks.
I thought viagara was only good for helping to keep the sheets off your legs when the weather was too hot.

[Rene Asologuitar]

I have 13-56 strings on a busking guitar and they are ripping my fingernails up. I was wondering about going to a nail bar and have them put on some acrylic nails.
*******************
No, for nail bars.
Yes, for nail hardener.
Yes for finger picks, you have to get used to them, not easy either.

Rene