Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
Thanks to all for the suggestions and confirmation that this shouldn't be happening.
Lots of permutations to try, so I'm going to take a beat and work on those.
If I meet with success, I'll report back what worked!
Lots of permutations to try, so I'm going to take a beat and work on those.
If I meet with success, I'll report back what worked!
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
Just thought I'd update this with results, in case anyone comes to this with a similar issues, and to say thanks for suggestions.
I did switch the M4's USB cable, and things seem to have improved.
I had been using a USB-C to C cable, and now, surprisingly, I'm using a USB-C to A-with-adapter-back-to-C (because it's all I had available).
I'm at a buffer size of 32 samples now, getting almost no clicks (every ~10 minutes instead of every 30 seconds) recording a couple of tracks of audio -- but still not none.
I wish I could understand *why* the USB cable would make a difference, so that I could remedy this completely -- but I'm also not 100% sure that all the clicks were the result of the cable.
Whenever I've heard one, I've tried to immediately open Activity Monitor, and the only thing I've noticed so far is that sometimes I have an automated backup running.
This should still consume only a fraction of the CPU I have available, so I'm not convinced that that's the cause, either.
The other thing I've done is unplug my Time Machine backups while recording.
So, hooray for progress, but too bad for remaining ambiguities. If the problem continues, I hope to get enough data for a definitive solution!
Thanks to all for troubleshooting with me.
I did switch the M4's USB cable, and things seem to have improved.
I had been using a USB-C to C cable, and now, surprisingly, I'm using a USB-C to A-with-adapter-back-to-C (because it's all I had available).
I'm at a buffer size of 32 samples now, getting almost no clicks (every ~10 minutes instead of every 30 seconds) recording a couple of tracks of audio -- but still not none.
I wish I could understand *why* the USB cable would make a difference, so that I could remedy this completely -- but I'm also not 100% sure that all the clicks were the result of the cable.
Whenever I've heard one, I've tried to immediately open Activity Monitor, and the only thing I've noticed so far is that sometimes I have an automated backup running.
This should still consume only a fraction of the CPU I have available, so I'm not convinced that that's the cause, either.
The other thing I've done is unplug my Time Machine backups while recording.
So, hooray for progress, but too bad for remaining ambiguities. If the problem continues, I hope to get enough data for a definitive solution!
Thanks to all for troubleshooting with me.
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
It isn't so much down to CPU but more down to whether it locks out any other interrupts or prevents any system calls from happening. If a badly written low level routine prevents anything else from running for half a millisecond then you'll end up with an interruption to the audio stream. 32 samples is very low in my experience with Windows although I don't know if the Mac works differently. It would almost certainly be safer to use 64.
- James Perrett
Moderator -
Posts: 14379 Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:00 am
Location: The wilds of Hampshire
Contact:
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration. JRP Music Facebook Page
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
It may well be that the USB C to C cable wasn't well made, or possibly damaged, and even though USB2 rather than USB3, some of the signals were getting corrupted and so rejected.
What you are left with are the odd dropouts due to the processor occasionally being too busy, as James says. You either need to spend time tracking down what process is occasionally holding things up, or else swap to a 64 sample buffer size.
What you are left with are the odd dropouts due to the processor occasionally being too busy, as James says. You either need to spend time tracking down what process is occasionally holding things up, or else swap to a 64 sample buffer size.
Reliably fallible.
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
What sample rate are you running at? Raising that will lower your latency.
- Drew Stephenson
Forum Aficionado -
Posts: 24657 Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Contact:
(The forumuser formerly known as Blinddrew)
Ignore the rumours that I might have an idea what I'm doing...
https://drewstephenson.bandcamp.com/
Ignore the rumours that I might have an idea what I'm doing...
https://drewstephenson.bandcamp.com/
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
Doing that will put more work on the processor. But if it's another program that very occasionally just holds an interrupt for too long, and the processor is otherwise coping with the audio, then you might get away with it.
Reliably fallible.
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
Indeed, but I think we've established that the processor isn't particularly stressed. So the buffer could be raised and offset slightly by a sample rate rise if the OP is using 44.1 or 48.
- Drew Stephenson
Forum Aficionado -
Posts: 24657 Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Contact:
(The forumuser formerly known as Blinddrew)
Ignore the rumours that I might have an idea what I'm doing...
https://drewstephenson.bandcamp.com/
Ignore the rumours that I might have an idea what I'm doing...
https://drewstephenson.bandcamp.com/
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
Re: sample rates, I'm at 44.1 -- so good idea! Isn't it true that higher sample rates come with some side effects (besides file size)?
Mic dust crackles wouldn't manifest similarly to buffer-size crackles, would they? The mic wasn't in use for a number of months prior, and I didn't store it following best practices (now I do!).
Mic dust crackles wouldn't manifest similarly to buffer-size crackles, would they? The mic wasn't in use for a number of months prior, and I didn't store it following best practices (now I do!).
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
Doubling from base to 88.2 or 96kHz is very unlikely to cause any kind of side-effects. I understand there might be some if you start going to 192 or beyond but I can't remember what they are. I'm sure a search of the site will find the answer that Hugh wrote about it a while back.
Mic dust crackles wouldn't manifest similarly to buffer-size crackles, would they? The mic wasn't in use for a number of months prior, and I didn't store it following best practices (now I do!).
I don't think so, condensation on a mic (or the dust attracted by that) tends to sound different to dropped samples.
- Drew Stephenson
Forum Aficionado -
Posts: 24657 Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Contact:
(The forumuser formerly known as Blinddrew)
Ignore the rumours that I might have an idea what I'm doing...
https://drewstephenson.bandcamp.com/
Ignore the rumours that I might have an idea what I'm doing...
https://drewstephenson.bandcamp.com/
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
Your processor has to work harder at higher sample rates, so if you are using a lot of processor-hungry effects or instruments then you may need to keep an eye on your processor loading. But on a modern computer, that is generally going to be a lot of effects/instruments before it even breaks into a slight sweat.
And doubling the sample rate doubles the recording file sizes, but unless you are working with a nearly full drive, then that too shouldn’t be an issue these days with such large drives available.
And doubling the sample rate doubles the recording file sizes, but unless you are working with a nearly full drive, then that too shouldn’t be an issue these days with such large drives available.
Reliably fallible.
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
I don't think the difference in latency between a buffer of 32 samples and one of 64 is going to be significant. The difference between the two is less than a millisecond. Try 64 samples and see if that fixes the problem.
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
Well, curiouser and curiouser!
I tried upping the sample rate to 96kHz at a buffer 64 samples, and immediately got my crackles back, in spades! (Also, just to be clear, the latency issue is secondary to the crackles, since I'm already below my tolerable threshold of about 10ms.)
Checking the activity monitor showed CPU usage around 50% from Reaper -- which seemed high to me, considering I'm doing a minimal test of audio-only recording -- but still not high enough to cause buffer issue. No significant competing processes appeared.
I have a new USB cable on the way, but given the direct correlation between the sample rate and crackles, I'm guess this is actually an issue with the Motu M4 driver or Reaper.
I'm going to fire up Logic with the same settings, to see if I can winnow it down.
I tried upping the sample rate to 96kHz at a buffer 64 samples, and immediately got my crackles back, in spades! (Also, just to be clear, the latency issue is secondary to the crackles, since I'm already below my tolerable threshold of about 10ms.)
Checking the activity monitor showed CPU usage around 50% from Reaper -- which seemed high to me, considering I'm doing a minimal test of audio-only recording -- but still not high enough to cause buffer issue. No significant competing processes appeared.
I have a new USB cable on the way, but given the direct correlation between the sample rate and crackles, I'm guess this is actually an issue with the Motu M4 driver or Reaper.
I'm going to fire up Logic with the same settings, to see if I can winnow it down.
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
I'm not sure there is an issue as such - you may just need to run at 44.1 with a buffer of 64.
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
That is ludicrously high. I'd expect it to be well under 1%. I've just checked and my setup uses no more than 2% CPU when recording a stereo track with a 64 byte buffer and that's on a 10 year old i7 machine. So yours should be well under that. At higher buffer settings it only uses around 0.2% CPU.
- James Perrett
Moderator -
Posts: 14379 Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:00 am
Location: The wilds of Hampshire
Contact:
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration. JRP Music Facebook Page
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
On a Mac that cpu percentage is the percentage of a single core not the % of the whole cpu.
I just did a quick test here with Reaper and recording a single track at 32 buffer I get 26%-29% cpu/core usage on an I7 4.5ghz.
Claz, are you running the Intel or ARM64 version of reaper?
I just did a quick test here with Reaper and recording a single track at 32 buffer I get 26%-29% cpu/core usage on an I7 4.5ghz.
Claz, are you running the Intel or ARM64 version of reaper?
-
- Guest
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
As mentioned upthread, an M1 Mac is a beast and should not be panting because of the recording, low buffer or not. Time Machine is notorious for interrupting other processes, and even if the CPU has a lot more to go on, it won’t help if the cycles aren’t used where they’re needed. Disabling Tme Machine is easy enough to try. To me, it sounds like a driver issue, or possibly compatibility issues with Reaper. Just for fun, how does Garage Band recordings work on your setup?
I make guitar noises
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
Just an update: while never solved completely, googling the problem does seem to reveal that folks have problems with buffers below 64 on M1 Macs, despite the SOS review (conducted on Intel, presumably), getting down as low as 16, if I remember correctly.
So, looks like a driver issue. I guess this is why folks here swear by RME!
So, looks like a driver issue. I guess this is why folks here swear by RME!
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
Hi!
Did you manage to resolve the issue?
I am experiencing the very same problem. I have the same hardware as you have: Macbook M1 Max (although the 32 Gb RAM version) + Motu M4, latest drivers etc. I use FL Studio. I can run everything (instruments, recorded audio, and effects) with very low latency using the M1 Max internal audio card, while the Motu M4 will give choppy and crackle sounds. This is really a disappointment.
Hope to hear a solution.
Best regards,
genecleaner, Sweden
Did you manage to resolve the issue?
I am experiencing the very same problem. I have the same hardware as you have: Macbook M1 Max (although the 32 Gb RAM version) + Motu M4, latest drivers etc. I use FL Studio. I can run everything (instruments, recorded audio, and effects) with very low latency using the M1 Max internal audio card, while the Motu M4 will give choppy and crackle sounds. This is really a disappointment.
Hope to hear a solution.
Best regards,
genecleaner, Sweden
-
- genecleaner
- Posts: 2 Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:57 am
Re: Crackling at low latencies on M1 Mac, recording audio with no plugins
ISSUE SOLVED
After trying many, many different things, I search and read more in forums and found that some people managed to solved the crackling issue by using the USB-C-to-A cable supplied in the motu M4 box instead of an USB-C-to-C cable (which should in theory work). So, I tried this, connecting the motu M4 through to my M1 Max through an Apple USB adaptor and using the right-side USB C port on the Macbook. This has completely fixed the issue for me (so far).
Hope this will work for other as well.
After trying many, many different things, I search and read more in forums and found that some people managed to solved the crackling issue by using the USB-C-to-A cable supplied in the motu M4 box instead of an USB-C-to-C cable (which should in theory work). So, I tried this, connecting the motu M4 through to my M1 Max through an Apple USB adaptor and using the right-side USB C port on the Macbook. This has completely fixed the issue for me (so far).
Hope this will work for other as well.
-
- genecleaner
- Posts: 2 Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:57 am