Song writing tip

[RobinDorset]

Here's a song writing tip you might not have heard! (or maybe you have?)

Use at least one chord with a "non scale tone" note in it. (dominant 7ths not included, I mean they can be but that's not the tip)

eg: in the key of C major use at least one of the following chords:

A major, D major, E major, Ab major, Bb major, F minor, G minor.

Could also be major or minor 7ths but the key point is to have a non major scale tone in at least one chord somewhere in the song.

[MOF]

It sounds a bit arbitrary, surely it’s what chords best support the melody that should be uppermost in your songwriting; unless you don’t have a melody yet and you’re suggesting interesting chord sequences to inspire the melody.

[Drew Stephenson]

Interesting idea, thanks.
Of course in my case I'd need to go and google what non-scales notes were in whatever piece I was working on, but it should be easier for people less ignorant!

[Sam Spoons]

I'm guessing you can recognise/play a scale by ear Drew? If so then using the notes that are not in that scale adds a different flavour to a tune. I'm also guessing that that is more or less what the OP is suggesting, that by using chords that contain these note will add interest to a song.

[Drew Stephenson]

I'm guessing you can recognise/play a scale by ear Drew?

Maybe...

If so then using the notes that are not in that scale adds a different flavour to a tune. I'm also guessing that that is more or less what the OP is suggesting, that by using chords that contain these note will add interest to a song.

Yep, agree absolutely about the value of it.

[RichardT]

That is a good tip, it really does add some interest to a tune.

[RobinDorset]

It sounds a bit arbitrary, surely it’s what chords best support the melody that should be uppermost in your songwriting; unless you don’t have a melody yet and you’re suggesting interesting chord sequences to inspire the melody.

Not at all. You should be able to have at least one chord which has a note that is not in the major scale without affecting the relationship with the melody. it will compliment it and add colour and dynamics. Lots of chords can support the same melody. In a "pop" song just one chord with one note that is not in the major scale can add a lot to it. In C, A major and D major are good alternatives for Am and Dm. gives you a C# or F# which are both not in the C major scale. F minor is also used a lot in songs in C major. gives you an Ab. Give it a try. I think it's a very old trick. I'm just being analytical about music as it's something I've noticed in many great songs.

[OneWorld]

Here another tip, use any note you want, the rules of harmony are a guide, a ‘sounding board’ they are not prescriptive, they allow a combo to have a touchstone, eg “This is in the key of C major” you have an idea of what chords to expect. But you do say songwriting, yes use any note you want, often the difficulty is, once you’ve strayed off the path, the clever bit is getting back on the path seamlessly and effectively.

[Sam Spoons]

My experience tells me that some 'wrong' notes sound great, others just 'grate'. If I can ever work out which are which my solos will improve 100%

[OneWorld]

My experience tells me that some 'wrong' notes sound great, others just 'grate'. If I can ever work out which are which my solos will improve 100%

It's back to the Morcombe and Wise quip "I am not playing wrong notes, I am playing all the right notes but in the wrong order"

And then of course there is Schoenberg with his Verklerte Nacht, the atonalists, where they played every note but the 'right' note with there being no 'central' focus based on the basic triad, where on a chromatic scale, the notes are independent of each other. Actually Bach used chromatic changes a lot, but somehow the music remained tuneful, I really like the way Bach holds a chord but the bass line moves about beneath it, usually a chromatic change

Another 'trick' is to have 2 unrelated chords played at once, more easily done on the piano, one chord in the left hand, another chord in the right hand, there will be a clash, a note aching to be resolved at the same time as another note which might be the 9th of the scale, essentially you have the choice of two chords to resolve, gives a lot of choice.

I go along with the general rule, if it sounds right it is right

[GilesAnt]

There are no rules to composition of course, though some things work better than others. However is isn't necessarily helpful to an aspiring composer to just say 'anything goes', so tips such as the one mentioned by the OP are a good step along the path I think, to break away from the tyranny of 3 chords.

By the way Verklerte Nacht is an amazing work - every time you 'expect' a chord Schoenberg does something different.

[shufflebeat]

And then of course there is Schoenberg with his Verklerte Nacht, the atonalists, where they played every note but the 'right' note...

We've all done it, except some of us try to move on without drawing attention to it.

The act of putting a surprise major chord where a minor might be expected creates a similar effect to bolting on an augmented 5th or a flattened 7th. You get the usual, "aah!" followed by an uncertain, "ooh?", which resolves itself when the next chord change puts a context on all the fannying about.

Or not.

[merlyn]

... it's something I've noticed in many great songs.

I've noticed those chords in songs.

E major in C -- Space Oddity It's the first chord change of the verse

F minor in C -- also Space Oddity There is a change | F / / / | Fm / / /| This is also in Nowhere Man and Creep in G.

Anyone got examples of the other chords?

[shufflebeat]

Lots of this in Gershwin songs.

[Uncovered Pitch]

According to my research at least 90% of pop songs do NOT contain a non-scale chord. Therefore when you do include one, it instantly dates the song. Now of course if you want to evoke a nostalgic feeling, this may be just the ticket!

[merlyn]

I notice you left out the word 'great'. If the implication is that 90% of pop songs are not great, I would agree with that

How many songs did you find were based on 'The Axis Of Awesome'? In C : C G Am F or I V vi IV.

[shufflebeat]

According to my research...

There's actual research on this?

References?

(or a smiley emoji to denote ironic use of scientific terms).

[OneWorld]

So much modern 'pop' music is formulaic these days, ok always was, but these days it's the software that drives the chord changes as opposed to a more organic method - a human. There is no end of videos on YouTube - How To Write the Perfect Pop Song, or The Top 10 Best Chord Changes in the World etc it's little wonder a lot of stuff sounds identical except for the words, and a lot of the time even they are predictable and mundane, about the only difference between Singer A and Singer B is they are wearing different frocks.

I thin Simon Cowell made the point quite succinctly - "Imagine walking down the aisle in a supermarket, where for example all the boxes of washing powder are, all the boxes look different, but the contents are identical, so we have to make our box look better than all the others"

That being said, there are novel many examples of novel and creative uses of harmony in pop, if there weren't we would have ended up with 1001 different versions of the 3 chord trick

[Uncovered Pitch]

According to my research...

There's actual research on this?

References?

(or a smiley emoji to denote ironic use of scientific terms).

My research is not scientific enough to be published in The Lancet but probably more thorough than your research into which airlines fly to New York before your last trip. I've actually/sadly spent hundreds of hours analysing pop chord progressions—pick your emoji...

[GilesAnt]

I randomly selected I Wish It Could Be A Wombling Xmas Every Day....and found a nice selection of non-scale chords.

It sounds pretty 'poppy' to me.