Radial Engineering KL-8

[Arpangel]

Been looking at this, always interested in these types of things.
It’s a rack mixer, with "four" stereo inputs and two USB, the price is around £850
I’m wondering what the performance is like in comparison to the likes of Tascam and Samson at around a third of the price.
I’m getting the vibe that this is a touring stage mixer for demanding road use, rather than a static studio expander that won’t have the same mechanical build quality, but sound quality? is it going to sell on that, at this price, with so few inputs.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I’m wondering what the performance is like in comparison to the likes of Tascam and Samson at around a third of the price.

Is searching the website so difficult?

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/radial-kl-8

I’m getting the vibe that this is a touring stage mixer for demanding road use

It is exactly that. The USB interface is geared towards playing virtual instruments in s stage setting. While it is possible to record a stereo mix into a DAW through the KL8 it's not optimised for that role, and there are much better recording interfaces.

...is it going to sell on that, at this price, with so few inputs.

Apparently it is very popular and sells very well... it is the bigger brother to the original Key Largo which is also very popular with stage keyboard players.

[Drew Stephenson]

It feels to me that Radial aim to target the professional user who wants a fit-and-forget solution that will provide high-quality sound in a very durable package, and who is prepared to pay a premium for that reliability and peace of mind.
But I may just be a sucker for advertising!

[Arpangel]

I’m wondering what the performance is like in comparison to the likes of Tascam and Samson at around a third of the price.

Is searching the website so difficult?

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/radial-kl-8

I’m getting the vibe that this is a touring stage mixer for demanding road use

It is exactly that. The USB interface is geared towards playing virtual instruments in s stage setting. While it is possible to record a stereo mix into a DAW through the KL8 it's not optimised for that role, and there are much better recording interfaces.

...is it going to sell on that, at this price, with so few inputs.

Apparently it is very popular and sells very well... it is the bigger brother to the original Key Largo which is also very popular with stage keyboard players.

I did check the review Hugh, but wanted a few opinions here.

[MaestroMikeT]

Maybe I’m missing something, but what is the real convenience of such a device, in a two-live keyboards plus controller-interface-laptop setup for example, opposed to having all three stereo mixes in their own stereo di’s - wich even are the sound company’s gear? It doesn’t eliminate the need for a laptop - unlike some vst players from years ago, a remarkable ideia that went amiss - costs an arm and a leg, and gives you what you already should be having from the stage sound guy… He should be feeling lucky, as you’re doing his job of delivering a proper monitor mix! Seriously, what is the goal of devices like this?

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[Dave Rowles]

You get a 4 stereo keyboard in, plus the option to have USB returns all go to a single pair of XLR to the PA. All in a very convenient rack unit, and something that's designed to be thrown around by roadies into the back of the van. If your live keyboard rig is big enough to warrant it, it's a great way of racking up and streamlining your setup. You can have the same effect from a mixer, but that also has loads of EQ knobs and stuff that you don't really need, plus Radial stuff does sound great!

[MaestroMikeT]

I guess if you run small venues with limited channel count mixers, you could be persuaded to get one of these. But, and I don’t mean any disrespect, I can’t really see why would it be my problem to have a single stereo pair instead of three or four different stereo pairs going to FOH (and to stage mixer)? It’s a piece of equipment wich I can’t really grasp its usefulness in the face of its cost.
I do know Radial stuff is top notch, and they do know how to make good sounding boxes, but in this case it’s an unnecessary link in the chain, so that can not be its selling point…

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[Hugh Robjohns]

I can’t really see why would it be my problem to have a single stereo pair instead of three or four different stereo pairs going to FOH

Different courses for different courses. If you can't see a benefit for you, it's not a product for you. Simples.

However, some players prefer to send a stereo mix to FOH rather than hope the live sound engineer shares their own balance preferences.

And in smaller venues, hoping the FOH has eight spare channels and DI boxes just for keyboards may prove disappointing.

In essence, it's a rackmount road-rugged alternative for a compact desktop mixer, with a built-in high quality stereo DI box, a stereo USB interface, and top flight audio electronics.

The KL8 came from user requests for a slughtly tweaked rackmount version of the Key Largo, which also sells well.

[Bob Bickerton]

And just to add the Ashly LX308B (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... line-mixer) is a high quality 8 channel stereo line mixer. I had one for awhile and it performed very well.

Bob

[resistorman]

I can’t really see why would it be my problem to have a single stereo pair instead of three or four different stereo pairs going to FOH (and to stage mixer)? It’s a piece of equipment wich I can’t really grasp its usefulness in the face of its cost.

So I take it you only play in the top 1% of venues in the world with top notch equipment, unlimited channels and the best audio engineers with plenty of rehearsal time? Good for you, though if that's the case I don't see why the cost of this device would mean anything to you. The rest of the players in the world aren't so lucky and would like to have some control over their sound.

[MaestroMikeT]

Of course not, I should be so lucky, though you really don’t need to go to that 1 % to require proper conditions on their part, as you already know. but if you’re willing to spend almost a thousand quid to cover what the venue is lacking, and has nothing to do with your sound or performance, be my guest, but I do wonder about that priority…

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[Arpangel]

There is no way that I would play any venue, anywhere, and present with more than one stereo out, creatively, practically, it’s not something that pleases me, or the sound guys, believe me, I’ve heard them say it many times, multiple outputs, tons of mains plugs, are not favoured by any means.
I make sure I’ve got one mains plug, and a stereo out, and everyone’s happy.
This box is a solution, but an expensive one, the USB side looks like a selling point, but honestly, you could buy an interface to do that, plus a small mixer, at a fraction of the cost, and how much more hassle is that going to be, really.

[Hugh Robjohns]

...but honestly, you could buy an interface to do that, plus a small mixer, at a fraction of the cost, and how much more hassle is that going to be, really.

Don't forget to throw in the Jensen transformer stereo DI box.

Cheaper? Yes, probably.

As compact, convenient, rugged and long lasting? Definitely not.

It's a product designed to serve a specific need. If that's not your need, don't buy the product.

[Arpangel]

...but honestly, you could buy an interface to do that, plus a small mixer, at a fraction of the cost, and how much more hassle is that going to be, really.

Don't forget to throw in the Jensen transformer stereo DI box.

Cheaper? Yes, probably.

As compact, convenient, rugged and long lasting? Definitely not.

It's a product designed to serve a specific need. If that's not your need, don't buy the product.

Fair enough, but it’s a rack unit, you’ve got to have a rack, more stuff.
I’m just trying to figure out price, against what’s available, it’s not a case of is it for me, or not, it’s a quality unit sure, but is it worth it for me? if it had just a few more inputs I’d seriously think about it, but it’s just too few for me.
I’ve been looking for something of this quality in this format for ages, but it just doesn’t tick all of my boxes.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Fair enough, but it’s a rack unit, you’ve got to have a rack, more stuff.

Then go for the Key Largo. It's a pedal format.

... it just doesn’t tick all of my boxes.

Great. You have your answer. Move on...

[Dave Rowles]

Of course not, I should be so lucky, though you really don’t need to go to that 1 % to require proper conditions on their part, as you already know. but if you’re willing to spend almost a thousand quid to cover what the venue is lacking, and has nothing to do with your sound or performance, be my guest, but I do wonder about that priority…

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Just to clarify. Here's a channel list for my large scale client. This is a live gig.
1 Kick
2 Snare
3 Hats
4 T1
5 T2
6 T3
7 T4
8 OH L
9 OH R
10 Snare 2
11 Drums - Hand Percussion
12 Front of stage percussion
13 Toys Percussion - 2 SM57s on y-split
14 Bass
15 Bass Percussion
16 Electric Guitar
17 Acoustic Guitar - A/B spanish and steel strung
18 Guitar percussion
19 Sax
20 Flute/Wind
21 Electronic Wind L
22 Electronic Wind R
23 Wind Percussion
24 Keys L - 4 keyboards into a mixer onstage
25 Keys R
26 Piano Lo
27 Piano Hi
28 Violin
29 Violin Spare
30 Electric Violin L
31 Electric Violin R
32 Chat Mic
33 Chat Mic Spare
34 Track 1
35 Track 2
36 Track 3
37 Track 4
38 Track 5
39 Track 6
40 String Orch Violins 1st desk
41 String Orch Violins 2nd desk
42 String Orch Violins 3rd desk
43 String Orch Violins 4th Desk
44 String Orch Viola
45 String Orch Cellos
46 String Orch Double bass
47 Choir Left
48 Choir Right

What's the point? On large shows, where I have access to all the toys having the keyboard player balance himself gives me a massive head start on all the work I have to do on the show day. Down mixing the keys would increase the already massive channel list by 6 more channels when it really isn't necessary, and thus need to go over 48 channels, which generally makes things harder

As a performer, you should be able to balance yourself, that way you present to the engineer the best version of yourself, thus making his job easier. These sorts of tools do that, and do it far more cleanly than some other tools you can get.

[MaestroMikeT]

Because the FOH engineer is better at mixing, and is at a much better position, and in a much better spot to evaluate a proper mixing of all the pieces adding to the mix. Specially if you have very contrasting sounds, that require different treatment at mix stage, impossible to achieve if you feed him just a LR.
Would we just turn our attention to drummers, for example? Do they mix their own kit, and deliver a stereo mix? No, that’s not standard procedure!!!
Of course your experience is your experience and I obviously respect that, I just have the opposite feedback, with engineers wanting to have full control. And I tend to agree with them, and so I fail to see the relevance of this kit IN MY SITUATION only, others see it and use it thoroughly, and that’s ok.

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[resistorman]

I would argue that good drummers do mix themselves, they do it acoustically. I'm working at a small venue right now using only a kick and overhead with generally great results as long as the drummer is professional with a well tuned set. Anyhow, unless I know the material inside out how would I know what balance to give multiple keyboards? I can certainly use my judgement and I may do the songs justice, but maybe not what the players envision. I don't think preferring a stereo mix from a musician is lazy or a lack of competence, it's trusting their judgement and intent.

[Mike Stranks]

Just to join in on 'I want your mix from keys, please' discussion, I have never been asked to mix keys at the desk... I've always been sent a mix of some sort. I shan't name-drop, but I've worked with one of the keyboard 'big beasts' a couple of times. Had his own mixer and sent me his mix.

Incidentally; would that some of the drummers I've encountered did do their own (acoustic) mix - especially for level...

[Arpangel]

Because the FOH engineer is better at mixing, and is at a much better position, and in a much better spot to evaluate a proper mixing of all the pieces adding to the mix. Specially if you have very contrasting sounds, that require different treatment at mix stage, impossible to achieve if you feed him just a LR.
Would we just turn our attention to drummers, for example? Do they mix their own kit, and deliver a stereo mix? No, that’s not standard procedure!!!
Of course your experience is your experience and I obviously respect that, I just have the opposite feedback, with engineers wanting to have full control. And I tend to agree with them, and so I fail to see the relevance of this kit IN MY SITUATION only, others see it and use it thoroughly, and that’s ok.

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Unless you’re head-lining, and have a dedicated sound crew, this rarely happens.
The type of gigs I used to play, and "maybe" now, I’m one among many on a sound engineers set list, and it’s a huge job just trying to get a reasonable mix for all of us.
I can get my main mix balanced, effects sorted out, I say I give a "stereo" pair, in most cases I mix to mono, with very little stereo information at all.
I’ve never, ever, had an engineer mix me exclusively, and I don’t know many people I’ve played with who have, the thought of an engineer who isn’t committed to my music trying to work with me on a mix is awful, plus, you just don’t have the time!
It’s always a compromise, we all get along, and it normally sounds fine, and no one in the audience is any the wiser.
OK, here we go, I think this Radial mixer is overkill, if I had an unlimited budget I’d have difficulty justifying it, if anyone here had come on and said it was sonic heaven, worth every penny, and would survive a weekend in a water filled dustbin in winter and still work on Monday (like by Behringer compressor did) then maybe I might be interested, although the water filled dustbin might not be everyone’s requirement.