The Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread #3

[The Elf]

Saw announcement of the price cuts on FB, if only I had the dosh!

I'm only seeing discounts in the US. If the price of the System 55 now in the US arrives in the UK I'm buying...

[BJG145]

Behringer 2600 – $200 price cut to $499

I don't know how much longer I'll be able to resist one of those.

[t-sun]

Saw announcement of the price cuts on FB, if only I had the dosh!

I'm only seeing discounts in the US. If the price of the System 55 now in the US arrives in the UK I'm buying...

In my experience with Thomann, sellers in the EU (and presumably still in the UK) aren't as beholden to manufacturer pricing as sellers elsewhere. So I've ordered things from Thomann Germany that they put on sale because it was significantly cheaper than the US sellers, even with shipping. Kind of goes both ways.

That being said, $1600 at current exchange rates is 1298.50GBP. Shipping + VAT can't possibly be that much, right?

Also, I just noticed that the System 15 is exactly $10,000 less than the Moog System 10.

[Arpangel]

Also, I just noticed that the System 15 is exactly $10,000 less than the Moog System 10.

Why do you think that is?

[t-sun]

Also, I just noticed that the System 15 is exactly $10,000 less than the Moog System 10.

Why do you think that is?

Behringer have a sense of humor.

Price drops hit Thomann, not sure if UK sellers are going to follow suit. Andertons doesn't seem to have done so. Not as deep a drop as the US, either, but that's not really a surprise.

https://www.thomannmusic.com/behringer_ ... izers.html

The System-15 is now down to 999€ from 1250€ (20% OFF), the System-35 to 1190€ from 2111€ (43% OFF), and the System-55 to 1790€ from 3319€ (46% OFF). As mentioned in the other article, the Behringer Eurorack GO has dropped to the best price of 249€ instead of 329€. The starting price in Europe was 279€. Other prices changes:

Poly D: 666€ instead of 735€
MonoPoly: 508€ instead of 649€
2600: 485€ instead of 569€
Gray Meanie (2600): 508€ instead of 599€ (begin of 2023 than dropped to 549€)

There are also many price adjustments for the Eurorack modules. To write them all down would be too much now. But here are two examples: Behringer 130 Dual VCA is now 78€ instead of 109€ (January), and the 305 EQ/Mixer/Output now 85€ (before 109€).

[Arpangel]

This is an incredible price.

https://www.thomannmusic.com/behringer ... ._1027.htm

[BJG145]

By the time you add VAT and postage it's probably cheaper on Amazon (£99).

Or how about a Blue Marvin for £422.

[DGL.]

Regarding the Solina, Madis has one and has shown it in a short video on FB.

More interesting is that in a video from Osmose interviewing Jarre there is a Behringer Solina in the background for a few seconds and according to Jamie Munro (who's been doing some beta testing of some things and has some inside knowledge) he's been involved from an early stage, that's quite a development and should guarantee it'll be great.

[Arpangel]

By the time you add VAT and postage it's probably cheaper on Amazon (£99).

Or how about a Blue Marvin for £422.

I bought a Gray Meanie, it’s exactly £100 cheaper right now, than when I bought mine, I’m just about to put together a Berry Moog, some of those modules are ridiculously cheap now.

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/2171492

I feel we ought to get this stuff now, as it may be discontinued at some point, who knows?

[DGL.]

A couple of slightly interesting bits of news on their FB page, one is that they have been contacted by several kickstarter startups regarding partnering on manufacture/finance/distribution and have a couple of things going live soon, and that they are happy to discuss any similar ventures that they could be interested in, whether or not the product ends up with their logo/brand on it.

Also in the comments to that post it was suggested that they look at the recently defunct Cymatic audio and pick up where they left off with Behringer replying that Andy Lauer their former CEO was to take over leadership of Behringer so Uli can concentrate on MT as a whole, plus it also allows some succession planning, Uli isn't going to be around forever.

Lastly their Model 15 (a sort of Mogg GM clone) is ready for production and is targeted to be $249.

[Arpangel]

A couple of slightly interesting bits of news on their FB page, one is that they have been contacted by several kickstarter startups regarding partnering on manufacture/finance/distribution and have a couple of things going live soon, and that they are happy to discuss any similar ventures that they could be interested in, whether or not the product ends up with their logo/brand on it.

Also in the comments to that post it was suggested that they look at the recently defunct Cymatic audio and pick up where they left off with Behringer replying that Andy Lauer their former CEO was to take over leadership of Behringer so Uli can concentrate on MT as a whole, plus it also allows some succession planning, Uli isn't going to be around forever.

Lastly their Model 15 (a sort of Mogg GM clone) is ready for production and is targeted to be $249.

I’m not sure this GM clone is actually worth releasing, is it?
You’ve got the D and the Poly D.
I have a Moog Grandmother, and to me, the beauty of it is the size and sheer playability and feel of the thing, it’s a big part of the instrument, it would be lost on the Berry.
I must admit, I am tempted by the Poly D, it has great potential, but it’s bigger, and more tactile, and from what I’ve heard from a couple of people, it also does the business.

[The Elf]

I had the Poly D for a while. It's not a synth I'll be returning to.

The Model D has 'that' sound. The Poly D does not. I suspect the oscillator drive is reduced to assist its aspirations as a para-poly, but it leaves it cold as a monosynth. The feedback facility does nothing to help. For a four-oscillator 'MiniMoog-alike' to sound so 'polite' is disappointing.

The 'poly' feature itself is a total waste of time and buttons, IMO. There are more immediate, less compromised and cheaper analogue poly options that don't require the oscillators to be manually re-tuned between mono and poly use. With this in mind the chorus facility also starts to look like a waste of buttons - a delay would have been more useful.

The 'broken' USB/MIDI pitchbend looks like it will now never be fixed, despite me having repeatedly reported and explained it to Behringer representatives. To many this is of no consequence - to me it's a stumbling block I grew tired of having to avoid.

Finally, not having the ability to apply aftertouch to vibrato onboard is just silly to my way of thinking.

This is a synth that's compromised as a poly by trying to be a MiniMoog and compromised as a MiniMoog by trying to be a poly.

Too many compromises, and not enough grunt. I grew more disappointed with the Poly D as time went on and I found I was choosing the Model D in preference almost every time.

Having said all of this I imagine you'll now want one...

[Arpangel]

Having said all of this I imagine you'll now want one...

On the contrary Elf, thanks, you’ve confirmed the doubts I had.
I have a Moog already, so I’m OK for "that sound"

[BillB]

Talking of Behringer Model D, does anyone know if firmware updates resolved the retrigger issue referred to in Gordon Reid's review
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/behringer-model-d.

The 1.1.1 Firmware (19 Dec 2018) update notes state "Addressed issues:
4. Improved re-trigger reliability when playing with legato notes."

Improved, not resolved... Also the latest downloadable firmware on the Behringer website is 1.0.5 (13 March 2018). Confused I am!

Not a Model D owner, I'm considering it for 'that sound' - but confused by the above.

[nathanscribe]

Improved, not resolved... Also the latest downloadable firmware on the Behringer website is 1.0.5 (13 March 2018). Confused I am!

I think all Behringer's updates are now done via their online Synthtribe tool rather than via the website.

[BillB]

Thanks, Nathan, I did wonder if that was the case, with the Synthtribe download being more up-to-date than the Firmware download.

The questions remains, if anyone knows, has the Model D retrigger 'bug' been resolved in a firmware update?

[The Elf]

Got to say I never knew it had a 're-trigger problem'!

I've just been hammering away at mine this afternoon and not noticed anything untoward.

They fixed my long-standing request for pitchbend in release at any pitchbend depth, mentioned in that same paragraph.

[BillB]

Thanks, Elf. If you haven't tripped over that issue and it is good enough for someone as particular as you, then its good enough for me.

[Arpangel]

Not a Model D owner, I'm considering it for 'that sound' - but confused by the above.

I’ve had a friends Berry D in here next to my Moog Model D Reissue, I was desperately on his side, but the thing that gave it away was the filter, it just didn’t cut it on the Berry D, even to my old ears, it’s obvious, so don’t go there if you want "that sound" back in the day (five years ago) you could have bought a Grandmother, which is what I’ve got that will deliver, but now things have gone beyond crazy, price wise, but all I can say is a Moog is a Moog, and nothing comes close, except a Moog.

[BillB]

Whilst respecting your experience, Tony, Gordon Reid’s take on the sound was
“As far as I’m concerned, the sound of the BMD is to all intents and purposes that of the Minimoog Model D. I suppose I could be very fussy and complain about the differences in... umm, well... urr... let me get back to you about that. Sure, some knobs have to be in different positions to obtain the same results, and I found small inconsistencies when programming extreme patches, but I must admit to being stunned by how well the BMD mimicked the Moog. With my original Minimoog, the Minimoog Model D and the BMD sitting alongside one another, the sonic differences were no greater than I would have expected when comparing a selection of vintage Minimoogs.”

Added to which, what I have heard online sounds pretty good. I actually just part-exchanged my Moog Sub-Phatty (which has that sound, to my ears), Novation BassStation 2 and Arturia Minibrute 2S for an Arturia MatrixBrute. It is wonderful, but I foolishly thought that the ladder filter would take it into Moog territory, and I am just not hearing it. Thus my theory that a Behringer Model D would make a great companion module for it...

We’ll see, I have barely played with the MatrixBrute yet, so I should give it more time before deciding it’s not quite enough!

[John Stafford]

Gordon Reid said the same about the Voyager.

"But, in all cases, the differences between the Voyager and my Minimoog were no greater than between two dissimilar Minimoogs"

[Arpangel]

Gordon Reid said the same about the Voyager.

"But, in all cases, the differences between the Voyager and my Minimoog were no greater than between two dissimilar Minimoogs"

There are differences, between the D and a Mini, it’s not that obvious, I agree, most of the time, but the way the filters behave at certain settings, especially with resonance when sweeping, is subtly different, you can hear it, we both did.
But, it wouldn’t be a deal breaker for me, the D is more than good enough, that it’s not really an issue, but it’s not just about the sound, it’s about playability and ergonomics, they all go together. My friend sold his D in the end, simply because he didn’t like the small knobs.

[The Elf]

I have an original early 70s MiniMoog here. They're close enough for me - and the Model D, once warmed up, holds its tuning better. Of course, here in the studio I'd use my real Mini in preference, but if it wasn't around I wouldn't now be looking for one.

I couldn't care less if there are subtle differences. I used to have two MiniMoogs and they were subtly different too. I didn't care then and I don't care now.

At the price it really isn't worth carping about its size or form - it is what it is, and we are lucky to have it around.

[Arpangel]

I sold my Mini Reissue, simply because I couldn’t justify having something that expensive sitting around doing nothing most of the time.
The Mini is a bit of hyped up nostalgia, that we all love, but in reality makes absolutely no sense in the grand scheme of things today, it’s nice to have though.
For me, I’ve always had to have a Moog of some sort hanging around, simply because you can’t replicate them, it’s the whole thing, not just the sound.
I’m not into all the classic Moog sounds, not interested at all, but for those earth shattering bass drones, or a nice slow smooth filter sweep, there’s nothing to touch them.
My Grandmother is fine, it’s like having my old Prodigy back, and I don’t feel so guilty about it being here!

On another note, just been looking at Gumtree, my god, there are so many Behringer 2600’s for sale it’s crazy, some around£300, it looks like if you buy Berry stuff, just don’t think about selling it, there’s absolutely no point.

[BillB]

Another consideration for me is that I actually need something that is small - I know exactly where it can fit in my box room studio - and nothing bigger could. I accept it won't recreate the 'minimoog experience ' - that's fine. As Elf says, we are lucky to have the option.

I thought seriously about the B2600 due to the basic sound, the flexibility of all those patching possibilities and nostalgia for that way of working. But I could see myself getting lost/stuck in a patch, not wanting to move on, concerned that if I did I would lose the sonic outcome. Thus opting for a mega monosynth with a Matrix and memories. It may not match the creative freedom of the 2600, but it sure is flexible and practical.

[t-sun]

On another note, just been looking at Gumtree, my god, there are so many Behringer 2600’s for sale it’s crazy, some around£300, it looks like if you buy Berry stuff, just don’t think about selling it, there’s absolutely no point.

I unloaded my MS-1 late last year for that exact reason, I knew there was an update coming so it was either move it on or keep it forever.

[Arpangel]

Another consideration for me is that I actually need something that is small - I know exactly where it can fit in my box room studio - and nothing bigger could. I accept it won't recreate the 'minimoog experience ' - that's fine. As Elf says, we are lucky to have the option.

I thought seriously about the B2600 due to the basic sound, the flexibility of all those patching possibilities and nostalgia for that way of working. But I could see myself getting lost/stuck in a patch, not wanting to move on, concerned that if I did I would lose the sonic outcome. Thus opting for a mega monosynth with a Matrix and memories. It may not match the creative freedom of the 2600, but it sure is flexible and practical.

There’s a mind set with modular, or something like the 2600, I make a patch, record it, and then, imediatly pull out all the patch leads, it’s gone, and that’s fine, it forces me to make new sounds, all off the time, which I can only see as a good thing.

[BillB]

There’s a mind set with modular, or something like the 2600, I make a patch, record it, and then, imediatly pull out all the patch leads, it’s gone, and that’s fine, it forces me to make new sounds, all off the time, which I can only see as a good thing.

That's a very valid point and I can see how it would work for you and many others. For myself, as an occasional hobbyist, with nothing like enough time in the studio, I think it would be a frustration. I even found the Minibrute 2S frustrating because I would come back to a patch, after not having been in the studio for 2-3 weeks, and think 'what's this about/for?'.

With enough time, money and space, I would ideally have access to both approaches. Gear is always about finding the best compromises for your own situation. Genuinely looking forward to retirement!

[Arpangel]

There’s a mind set with modular, or something like the 2600, I make a patch, record it, and then, imediatly pull out all the patch leads, it’s gone, and that’s fine, it forces me to make new sounds, all off the time, which I can only see as a good thing.

That's a very valid point and I can see how it would work for you and many others. For myself, as an occasional hobbyist, with nothing like enough time in the studio, I think it would be a frustration. I even found the Minibrute 2S frustrating because I would come back to a patch, after not having been in the studio for 2-3 weeks, and think 'what's this about/for?'.

With enough time, money and space, I would ideally have access to both approaches. Gear is always about finding the best compromises for your own situation. Genuinely looking forward to retirement!

In an ideal world I’d love to be able to use some of my patches again, but even when I’ve noted things down, they never sound the same, even when things are where they should be.
I have certain sounds that I use as "beds" all the time, on my digital stuff that has memories, but my music relies on the fact that to make it evolve and have interest, it requires new sounds all the time, that's where the modular comes in, with no menories.

[BillB]

Understood. The transient nature of the patch is its creative strength.