replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

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replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by N i g e l »

Does anyone know of a replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

My Hydrasynth PSU seems to have died. Symptoms are the Synth boots as far as the logo in the "Main Systems" screen and then hangs.

12V, 1A, center +ve. I have lots of these plug type PSUs, seems to be a common synth PSU - so I have tried several on the Hydrasynth but strangely the only one that works is a physically bigger in line PSU [with clover leaf mains lead].

There is a vast selection of £5 PSUs from CPC but its difficult to know which would be suitable. maybe a £6, 2A unit ?
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by The Elf »

Is it definitely the PSU at fault? Does it reliably start up with the larger ampage? It may be suggestive of another problem.

I'd try a quick chat with ASM to see what they have to say.
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by t-sun »

It's a standard PSU that they put a sticker on (which I always appreciated, never can figure out which ones go to any of my other modern synths), but if you need a replacement there's no reason you shouldn't get one with a higher amperage rating since devices only pull what they need.

That being said, that doesn't sound like any kind of power supply issue I've ever seen. Sounds like some kind of data corruption? I want to say I've seen someone post about a similar issue before, either here or elsewhere, and the solution was reflashing the firmware, but my memory on that is pretty fuzzy.
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by James Perrett »

I'd agree with the Elf. It may be that the Hydrasynth is drawing too much current for the original supply which indicates that there is a fault in the synth itself. I was fixing a Roland JV1080 recently which appeared to have a power supply fault but the power supply was actually shutting down in protection mode (as it was designed to do) due to a fault on one of the expansion cards.

It would be a good idea to check the old power supply on something else before condemning it.
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by Folderol »

That looks very likely if other units can't manage it, but have a sufficient rating. Also, if the Hydrasynth is faulty, putting a beefier PSU on it may cause more damage.
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by N i g e l »

Thanks for the pointers, more investigation is required on my part before splashing out on a new PSU.
I'll be back.....
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by N i g e l »

o.k.
I tried the ASM PSU on other small synth modules, both worked and had clean audio out. I think they would take less current than the Hydrasynth.

I used a current limited PSU on the Hydrasynth. It wouldnt boot if limited to 1A.
However without limiting, it did boot and the normal current after booting was only 700mA.
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by Folderol »

Interesting. Can you set the current limit to different values, and does the PSU allow for inrush current, or is it a hard constant limit? If the latter, then that's a bit unfair as the Hydrasynth is bound to have more than 1A inrush if the running current is 700mA. Any normal PSU should be able to cope with that, although it's a bit of a black art!
Does any data you got with the synth say anything about current? If not it might be worth contacting the company and asking for advice.
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by Martin Walker »

N i g e l wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:17 pm o.k.
I tried the ASM PSU on other small synth modules, both worked and had clean audio out. I think they would take less current than the Hydrasynth.

I used a current limited PSU on the Hydrasynth. It wouldnt boot if limited to 1A.
However without limiting, it did boot and the normal current after booting was only 700mA.

Now THAT's a professional at work - well done N i g e l :clap:8-)

I have heard that the ASM PSUs can be a bit wimpy (non-professional technical term) at times, but unless you've had the Hydrasynth a few years already I suspect ASM (or their UK distributors) ought to give you a replacement PSU given that the current one works-ish (another non-professional term) but fails to boot your Hydrasynth.
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by resistorman »

Out of curiosity I checked the power draw on my Hydrasynth desktop and it takes 611 ma running current. My meter is not fast so I wouldn't see spikes, but it drew 400-500 ma booting before settling in.
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by N i g e l »

Thanks :thumbup: thats usefull to know and suggests that my Hydrasynth is ok. There has never been any smoke or bangs. Ive got the 8 voice KB version by the way I may have not mentioned that before.

The PSU is now totally dead, which makes things easier.

Martin Walker wrote: I have heard that the ASM PSUs can be a bit wimpy (non-professional technical term) at times, but unless you've had the Hydrasynth a few years already I suspect ASM (or their UK

I hadnt heard that, I couldnt find any scandal on the internet, just links back here [!] and to some bloke complaining that the PSU was external and that the keyboard was too short :)

The ASM site says that the warranty is updated to 2 years [including retrospectively] but Im a couple of months outside that. CPC it is then.

I note that the ASM replacement is a 2A PSU "to cater for the 2x voices of the deluxe version"

Folderol wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:17 am Interesting. Can you set the current limit to different values, and does the PSU allow for inrush current, or is it a hard constant limit?

its an eastern cheapo lab pack from Rapid, with, I think, hard current limit knob. I have various 12V 1A synth PSUs but only some will power the Hydrasynth :crazy:
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by The Elf »

I'd still speak to ASM. Give them a chance to pleasantly surprise you. If they do or don't, report back!
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by N i g e l »

:thumbup: I will do
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by Martin Walker »

N i g e l wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:52 pm
Martin Walker wrote: I have heard that the ASM PSUs can be a bit wimpy (non-professional technical term) at times, but unless you've had the Hydrasynth a few years already I suspect ASM (or their UK

I hadnt heard that, I couldnt find any scandal on the internet, just links back here [!] and to some bloke complaining that the PSU was external and that the keyboard was too short :)

Just to show how impeccable my Internet searches are, here's a Gearspace post dated August 2021 you might find extremely enlightening ;)

"My HYDRASYNTH had the start up issue as all the screens flickered and didn’t boot. I sent for a repair and the problem persisted after working all right for a few days.
I eventually returned the Hydra in spite of it being one of my favorite synths. It seems the error was caused by a cheap PSU they use."


Its part of a huge 177-page Hydrasynth thread here on Gearspace: https://gearspace.com/board/electronic- ... st15579565

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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by resistorman »

I called out the cheap PSU in my EM review. Strange that it's the one place they cut corners.
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by Martin Walker »

resistorman wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:12 pm I called out the cheap PSU in my EM review. Strange that it's the one place they cut corners.

Sometimes re-badged PSUs can end up sourced from several manufacturers, or get changed during production if found to be lacking in some respect.

Given this history of previous wimpy PSUs, it may be that the power supply that ASM are now shipping has a better spec than early models (my Hydrasynth 4-octave keyboard version bought exactly a year ago in August 2021 has been fine thus far).

Because of this, I echo The Elf's suggestion that N i g e l see if he can get a free replacement from ASM , especially as the deluxe version has the same voltage but double the current capacity - that would solve the problem once and for all!
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by N i g e l »

Martin Walker wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:18 pm Because of this, I echo The Elf's suggestion that N i g e l see if he can get a free replacement from ASM , especially as the deluxe version has the same voltage but double the current capacity - that would solve the problem once and for all!

I have initiated contact with ASM.

My stats:
synth bought March 2020,
Home use only (but given 2020 & that the HS was new & awsome, it got a good share of play)
PSU is a small wall plug with the international pins being a circular twist & click arrangement.
unusual but nice as all other PSUs in my collection are linear slide 'n' click.
Apart from the LINE6 which is slide click fall off.

My only other ever failed PSU was on an MX200 where the internal fuse failed.
As it was a sealed unit that I had to dremel open, that knoweldge was useless.

UPDATE:
oh that was quick ! No dice from ASM, I have to contact the distributor.
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by The Elf »

N i g e l wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:46 pm oh that was quick ! No dice from ASM, I have to contact the distributor.

Well that's disappointing. ASM had a chance to shine in a very public way, but fluffed it. Oh well...
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

I'm not sure that's entirely fair. Distributors are appointed as the regional representative for the manufacturer. So it seems entirely fair and appropriate to send a support request to the local distributor, especially since this request involves a UK specific PSU replacement.
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by The Elf »

I just think it was a chance to shine. They didn't. That's an opportunity missed IMHO. The best companies understand and make the most of these opportunities, even if it means bending their protocols.

I'm just back from a Disney holiday. Now they know how to do it. If it were *my* company...
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by Eddy Deegan »

I think you're both right. It would have been a cheap and easy win for ASM (and had I been ASM I'd have just got it sorted) but ultimately from the consumer's perspective responsibility does lie with the distributor, even if the distributor gets that back-filled by the manufacturer up the line.

Edit: I do have some experience of being a vendor and there are often subtle things about the supply line that consumers will never see or understand but, however it's delivered, customer support should always be good.

One thing ASM could take away from this if they chose to is that the quality of the PSU is as important as the quality of the synth.

Neither my original Hydrasynth or the Deluxe had anything like the same issue and it does sound as if there could have been a batch of PSUs that could have been better. As to whether that's ASM's fault or the distributor I can't say but it's a shame that either way it's the end user that has the problem.

Hopefully the distributor will be able to help.
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by The Elf »

Eddy Deegan wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:50 pm I think you're both right. It would have been a cheap and easy win for ASM but ultimately from the consumer's perspective responsibility does lie with the distributor, even if the distributor gets that back-filled by the manufacturer up the line.

Which could all have happened 'magically' behind the scenes...
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by Eddy Deegan »

The Elf wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:52 pm
Eddy Deegan wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:50 pm I think you're both right. It would have been a cheap and easy win for ASM but ultimately from the consumer's perspective responsibility does lie with the distributor, even if the distributor gets that back-filled by the manufacturer up the line.

Which could all have happened 'magically' behind the scenes...

I agree, it could have and it's a shame it didn't. But the absence of spectacular service doesn't necessarily equate to bad service either. In this case, if the distributor sorts it out (as they should) then it's 'good' service, if not world-class.
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by N i g e l »

Hugh Robjohns wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:23 pm this request involves a UK specific PSU replacement.

The PSU is electrically world compatible, supplied with a variety of seamless pin adaptors eg UK, Europe.... other places.

Eddy Deegan wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:50 pm I think you're both right. It would have been a cheap and easy win for ASM but ultimately from the consumer's perspective responsibility does lie with the distributor, even if the distributor gets that back-filled by the manufacturer up the line.

Its late ! but I think the ultimate responsibility lies with the manufacturer.

Donahugh v Stevenson, "slug of gin-jah" precident - a slug at the bottom of the ginger beer.

The onus was on the manufacturer of the ginger beer not on the cafe owner who served it [distributor].

I will churn through the process & do battle but ultimately I think I will be reporting the product & specs of the £7 replacement from an independant vendor, possibly but not limited to CPC/Farineli.

Now that im out of warranty I also have thoughts about incorparting the psu inside the synth :shocked::think::think:
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by resistorman »

Personally, I have a cubic meter of wall warts and line lumps of all types collected over the years. I would just reach into the box and grab a 12v 2A or higher supply and get on with it. I might even do so if it was still in warranty.
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

N i g e l wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:04 amThe PSU is electrically world compatible, supplied with a variety of seamless pin adaptors eg UK, Europe.... other places.

The PSU supplied with your unit in the UK may have come with a full set of adapter plates, but are you sure every territory receives the same all-encompassing set?

I wouldn't be so certain based on my experience of receiving review kit directly from overseas distributors...

but I think the ultimate responsibility lies with the manufacturer.

Ultimately, yes, I'd agree... but I don't think it unreasonable at all to use the local distributor as the first point of customer support. It neatly avoids problems with languages, time zones, international shipping, customs and taxes, and is legitimately justifying some of the profit margin distributors take!

In the UK, the ASM distributor is Source Distribution and I've always found them to be extremely helpful and easy to deal with.

I note the psu rating for the deluxe model states it must supply more than 2A, which implies a 1A rating on the standard model might be a little tight.
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by The Elf »

N i g e l wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:04 amNow that im out of warranty I also have thoughts about incorparting the psu inside the synth :shocked::think::think:

:thumbup::clap:
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by Martin Walker »

Hugh Robjohns wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:53 am I note the psu rating for the deluxe model states it must supply more than 2A, which implies a 1A rating on the standard model might be a little tight.

I suspect we're all agreed on that, given that at least several hydrasynth keyboard owners have experienced the same weird bootup problems ;)

I've just unplugged my PSU (bought exactly one year ago) and it is labeled 12V 1.0A, so I suspect my Hydrasynth could be on the borderline juice-wise as well.
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by N i g e l »

Hugh Robjohns wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:53 am
N i g e l wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:04 amThe PSU is electrically world compatible, supplied with a variety of seamless pin adaptors eg UK, Europe.... other places.

The PSU supplied with your unit in the UK may have come with a full set of adapter plates, but are you sure every territory receives the same all-encompassing set?

Well I have no way of knowing for sure but my boxes have none of the usual variant markings that would indicate a specific region and the contents were globally compatible.

Martin Walker wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:45 pm
I've just unplugged my PSU (bought exactly one year ago) and it is labeled 12V 1.0A, so I suspect my Hydrasynth could be on the borderline juice-wise as well.

just to be clear, mine is an Ull power ICP12-120-1000D
which looks similar to this [ignore the USB stuff at the bottom, its got the barrel connector]....

Image
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Re: replacement PSU for Hydrasynth ?

Post by Martin Walker »

...while mine, although looking very smilar, has the designation:

FJ-SW126120 1000DN and simply says 'MADE IN CHINA'.
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