Good Mixing Headphones to replace Monitors

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Re: Good Mixing Headphones to replace Monitors

Post by blinddrew »

Mike Stranks wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:10 am
sonics wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:25 pm I'd consider... BD DT1xxx if you want to spend more.

I'm making an assumption that BD is shorthand for BeyerDynamic.

If so, while I'd accept the DT150 as OK-ish - although there are plenty of other contenders at that price point that are just as good/better - I don't rate the DT100 at all. I found them very 'middy' and totally unsuitable for mixing. I'm not alone in that assessment. I didn't keep mine for very long at all.

I was assuming sonics' third 'x' was key there and they were referring to things like the DT1770 etc.
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Re: Good Mixing Headphones to replace Monitors

Post by jaminem »

at £1k, for mixing headphones it HAS to be Audeze LCD X
No question. You really must try them, they are that good..
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Re: Good Mixing Headphones to replace Monitors

Post by sonics »

blinddrew wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:52 am I was assuming sonics' third 'x' was key there and they were referring to things like the DT1770 etc.

Apologies for my abbreviation, but blinddrew is correct. I meant the DT 1770 or 1990. I've not used DT100 since the early 1990's IIRC. I do have 880/990, but whereas they have good low frequency dynamics, they lack some resolution. I've yet to try the 700/900 models.
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Re: Good Mixing Headphones to replace Monitors

Post by twotoedsloth »

Sort of a non sequitur,

Would it be good to have a second pair of "grot box" headphones to compare your mixes with, much like I use a pair of ampex speakers to compare with my PMC monitors?

Thanks and sorry for going off topic,

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Re: Good Mixing Headphones to replace Monitors

Post by MOF »

Would it be good to have a second pair of "grot box" headphones to compare your mixes with, much like I use a pair of ampex speakers to compare with my PMC monitors?

Grot boxes were used to get a rough idea of what televisions and portable radios/cassette players would sound like as they had such small speakers with little in the way of bass response.
Given that most people seem to listen on earbuds and headphones, which are capable of delivering bass frequencies, I can’t think that there’s any need for such headphones.
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Re: Good Mixing Headphones to replace Monitors

Post by MarkOne »

I’m not sure this is even a valid approach, but on several mixes recently, I started out getting my static balance sorted using a grotty pair of Apple earbuds (the free ones you get with every iPhone) And once I felt I had something approaching a reasonable mix did I transition to monitors to dive deeper into the mix.

Like I said this might be a really bad habit, but I’ve felt it allows me to approach the sound in such a way many people might consume it in the end.
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Re: Good Mixing Headphones to replace Monitors

Post by sonics »

twotoedsloth wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:39 pm Would it be good to have a second pair of "grot box" headphones to compare your mixes with, much like I use a pair of ampex speakers to compare with my PMC monitors?

I think that some earphones (or IEMs) are really useful to provide another mix perspective, especially if any portion of your target audience uses them.
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Re: Good Mixing Headphones to replace Monitors

Post by The Elf »

twotoedsloth wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:39 pmWould it be good to have a second pair of "grot box" headphones to compare your mixes with, much like I use a pair of ampex speakers to compare with my PMC monitors?

Not really.

Neither am I personally convinced with this 'listen on something your audience will listen on' approach. You simply cannot anticipate the end playback system, or how it will be used.

A good *commercially average' mix will sound of its best on *anything*. That doesn't mean it sounds 'great' on them all, just that it will sit comfortably alongside other commercial material played on the same system. That's what you're aiming for.
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Re: Good Mixing Headphones to replace Monitors

Post by sonics »

The Elf wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:19 pm Neither am I personally convinced with this 'listen on something your audience will listen on' approach. You simply cannot anticipate the end playback system, or how it will be used.

Do you not check mixes on small speakers or in a car?

If you do know that most of your audience will listen on smartphones, for example, you would be foolish not to mix appropriately, which would include listening on smartphones.

The Elf wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:19 pm A good *commercially average' mix will sound of its best on *anything*. That doesn't mean it sounds 'great' on them all, just that it will sit comfortably alongside other commercial material played on the same system. That's what you're aiming for.

But do we know what the OP is aiming for? An average mix will sound average on everything, and great on nothing. What is a "commercially average" mix anyway? Music tastes, trends and commercial success have changed what a "good" mix sounds like as well. It's a mix, after all, not a maths test.
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Re: Good Mixing Headphones to replace Monitors

Post by James Perrett »

sonics wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:10 pm
Do you not check mixes on small speakers or in a car?

If you do know that most of your audience will listen on smartphones, for example, you would be foolish not to mix appropriately, which would include listening on smartphones.

In my case I use neutral sounding speakers and similarly balanced headphones that I know well and I know what a good mix sounds like on them. I will also sometimes use reference mixes to compare my mixes with if I think it will help.

I can't see any reason to try my mixes on a poor system - I may be able to make them sound fractionally better on that particular setup but they will almost certainly sound worse on other systems.

The only change that I will make to my monitoring during the course of a mix is to check the mix in mono which often helps when creating a balance and ensures that the important parts of the mix can be heard.
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Re: Good Mixing Headphones to replace Monitors

Post by Mike Stranks »

sonics wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:12 pm
blinddrew wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:52 am I was assuming sonics' third 'x' was key there and they were referring to things like the DT1770 etc.

Apologies for my abbreviation, but blinddrew is correct. I meant the DT 1770 or 1990. I've not used DT100 since the early 1990's IIRC. I do have 880/990, but whereas they have good low frequency dynamics, they lack some resolution. I've yet to try the 700/900 models.

No problemo... :thumbup: I'm not an assiduous follower of headphones... wasn't aware that BD DT had progressed into 4-digits.... :)
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Re: Good Mixing Headphones to replace Monitors

Post by The Elf »

sonics wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:10 pmIf you do know that most of your audience will listen on smartphones, for example, you would be foolish not to mix appropriately, which would include listening on smartphones.

A 'made for smartphones' mix is going to sound pretty odd over a PA system, an expensive hi-fi, a car stereo, or a mono 'smart speaker'.

A mix has to sound 'good' on *everything*. So checking a mix on a smartphone (which I do) is a good idea, but I don't mix *for* smartphones.

sonics wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:10 pmDo you not check mixes on small speakers or in a car?

Of course - but that's just to check that it sounds comfortable alongside other commercial mixes. I'm not mixing *for* car speakers.

There's only so far you can take this. Use what you have and with which you are familiar - that will tell you what you need to know. Compare with music that sounds good to you.

sonics wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:10 pmWhat is a "commercially average" mix anyway?

One that sits comfortably at the side of any other 'commercial' mix played back on *any* system.

I'm doing this day in, day out. My mixes HAVE to work on *any* system out there. With this in mind I check my mixes on a number of playback systems, but I certainly don't mix *for* any one of them. In reality, if I notice anything untoward on one system it usually shows itself on others too.
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