Good Mixing Headphones to replace Monitors

[james090]

Just asking to see what people's thoughts are on any good headphones for mixing?

I have the Beyerdynamic DT990's Pro, which are great, and understand that monitors are always preferable, but I could be moving to a new room with acoustic issues.

Therefore any higher priced headphone recommendations for mixing and mastering gratefully recieved

[RichardT]

There are many, many good choices these days - what’s your budget?

[james090]

There are many, many good choices these days - what’s your budget?

Probably around £1000 if they are very good alternatives to Studio Monitors

[RichardT]

I have focal Elears, and like them. But they are bettered now by the Focal Clear MGs, which are quite a lot more expensive and slightly over your budget. They would be worth a listen!

[Drew Stephenson]

I've got some DT990s and I find them noticeably improved with correction software.
This is a subject that splits the forum somewhat but it's worth looking at.

That being said, with your budget, you might not need it!

[james090]

I've got some DT990s and I find them noticeably improved with correction software.
This is a subject that splits the forum somewhat but it's worth looking at.

That being said, with your budget, you might not need it!

Yes the DT990's are great, but I had nothing to compare them too, so maybe I need to look at SonarWorks or similar to correct them?

[Drew Stephenson]

I've got some DT990s and I find them noticeably improved with correction software.
This is a subject that splits the forum somewhat but it's worth looking at.

That being said, with your budget, you might not need it!

Yes the DT990's are great, but I had nothing to compare them too, so maybe I need to look at SonarWorks or similar to correct them?

I think they do a trial period so it'd be worth looking at. For me the biggest difference was that they brought my monitors and headphones much closer in terms of response, which meant I wasn't going back and forth tweaking things one way or another when I changed listening devices.
Obviously if you're not going to be doing that then it may be much less valuable to you and you could be better off just really learning your headphones with some good reference material.

[sonics]

If you need accuracy (and surely replacing studio monitors with headphones is all about that) then I believe that one should use correction software. Sonarworks or Toneboosters Morphit. Then you can get very fine results from even GBP200 headphones from the likes of Beyer, Shure or Audio-Technica.

How good your hearing is and your experience may dictate how much mileage you get from spending more. I'd consider Sennheiser 6xx, AKG K7xx, Shure SRH or BD DT1xxx if you want to spend more. I have no experience with Focal or the newer brands. Even my razor-sharp Grados were turned into an analytical delight with correction EQ!

Headphones should be chosen carefully for fit, comfort and design (closed/open etc.). A good seal is needed for correct bass. I have even mixed in noisy environments using IEMs and correction software. Results were excellent.

After dealing with many speakers in different rooms I am so glad I now also have consistency with headphones and software. It also gives me an accurate reference point for comparison. If anyone's interested, I also use room emulation to avoid the "inside the head" effects of headphone mixing. I also use correction on my studio monitors, of course!

[James Perrett]

I'm happy with Sennheiser HD600s with no additional correction. They give me a similar presentation to my monitors but allow me to work at times when my monitors would disturb other people.

[The Elf]

AKG K7xx without a moment's hesitation. I also have HD600s, but the AKG K702s are the ones I choose, and all my mixes are done with them.

[Mike Stranks]

I'd consider... BD DT1xxx if you want to spend more.

I'm making an assumption that BD is shorthand for BeyerDynamic.

If so, while I'd accept the DT150 as OK-ish - although there are plenty of other contenders at that price point that are just as good/better - I don't rate the DT100 at all. I found them very 'middy' and totally unsuitable for mixing. I'm not alone in that assessment. I didn't keep mine for very long at all.

We've been seduced by numerous photos of people in studios wearing 'em and the dreaded 'industry standard' moniker. Fine for studio foldback duties, but not for critical mixing.

[james090]

AKG K7xx without a moment's hesitation. I also have HD600s, but the AKG K702s are the ones I choose, and all my mixes are done with them.

I might have to check these out alongside my DT990s

[Drew Stephenson]

I'd consider... BD DT1xxx if you want to spend more.

I'm making an assumption that BD is shorthand for BeyerDynamic.

If so, while I'd accept the DT150 as OK-ish - although there are plenty of other contenders at that price point that are just as good/better - I don't rate the DT100 at all. I found them very 'middy' and totally unsuitable for mixing. I'm not alone in that assessment. I didn't keep mine for very long at all.

I was assuming sonics' third 'x' was key there and they were referring to things like the DT1770 etc.

[jaminem]

at £1k, for mixing headphones it HAS to be Audeze LCD X
No question. You really must try them, they are that good..

[sonics]

I was assuming sonics' third 'x' was key there and they were referring to things like the DT1770 etc.

Apologies for my abbreviation, but blinddrew is correct. I meant the DT 1770 or 1990. I've not used DT100 since the early 1990's IIRC. I do have 880/990, but whereas they have good low frequency dynamics, they lack some resolution. I've yet to try the 700/900 models.

[twotoedsloth]

Sort of a non sequitur,

Would it be good to have a second pair of "grot box" headphones to compare your mixes with, much like I use a pair of ampex speakers to compare with my PMC monitors?

Thanks and sorry for going off topic,

Peter

[MOF]

Would it be good to have a second pair of "grot box" headphones to compare your mixes with, much like I use a pair of ampex speakers to compare with my PMC monitors?

Grot boxes were used to get a rough idea of what televisions and portable radios/cassette players would sound like as they had such small speakers with little in the way of bass response.
Given that most people seem to listen on earbuds and headphones, which are capable of delivering bass frequencies, I can’t think that there’s any need for such headphones.

[MarkOne]

I’m not sure this is even a valid approach, but on several mixes recently, I started out getting my static balance sorted using a grotty pair of Apple earbuds (the free ones you get with every iPhone) And once I felt I had something approaching a reasonable mix did I transition to monitors to dive deeper into the mix.

Like I said this might be a really bad habit, but I’ve felt it allows me to approach the sound in such a way many people might consume it in the end.

[sonics]

Would it be good to have a second pair of "grot box" headphones to compare your mixes with, much like I use a pair of ampex speakers to compare with my PMC monitors?

I think that some earphones (or IEMs) are really useful to provide another mix perspective, especially if any portion of your target audience uses them.

[The Elf]

Would it be good to have a second pair of "grot box" headphones to compare your mixes with, much like I use a pair of ampex speakers to compare with my PMC monitors?

Not really.

Neither am I personally convinced with this 'listen on something your audience will listen on' approach. You simply cannot anticipate the end playback system, or how it will be used.

A good *commercially average' mix will sound of its best on *anything*. That doesn't mean it sounds 'great' on them all, just that it will sit comfortably alongside other commercial material played on the same system. That's what you're aiming for.

[sonics]

Neither am I personally convinced with this 'listen on something your audience will listen on' approach. You simply cannot anticipate the end playback system, or how it will be used.

Do you not check mixes on small speakers or in a car?

If you do know that most of your audience will listen on smartphones, for example, you would be foolish not to mix appropriately, which would include listening on smartphones.

A good *commercially average' mix will sound of its best on *anything*. That doesn't mean it sounds 'great' on them all, just that it will sit comfortably alongside other commercial material played on the same system. That's what you're aiming for.

But do we know what the OP is aiming for? An average mix will sound average on everything, and great on nothing. What is a "commercially average" mix anyway? Music tastes, trends and commercial success have changed what a "good" mix sounds like as well. It's a mix, after all, not a maths test.

[James Perrett]

Do you not check mixes on small speakers or in a car?

If you do know that most of your audience will listen on smartphones, for example, you would be foolish not to mix appropriately, which would include listening on smartphones.

In my case I use neutral sounding speakers and similarly balanced headphones that I know well and I know what a good mix sounds like on them. I will also sometimes use reference mixes to compare my mixes with if I think it will help.

I can't see any reason to try my mixes on a poor system - I may be able to make them sound fractionally better on that particular setup but they will almost certainly sound worse on other systems.

The only change that I will make to my monitoring during the course of a mix is to check the mix in mono which often helps when creating a balance and ensures that the important parts of the mix can be heard.

[Mike Stranks]

I was assuming sonics' third 'x' was key there and they were referring to things like the DT1770 etc.

Apologies for my abbreviation, but blinddrew is correct. I meant the DT 1770 or 1990. I've not used DT100 since the early 1990's IIRC. I do have 880/990, but whereas they have good low frequency dynamics, they lack some resolution. I've yet to try the 700/900 models.

No problemo... I'm not an assiduous follower of headphones... wasn't aware that BD DT had progressed into 4-digits....

[The Elf]

If you do know that most of your audience will listen on smartphones, for example, you would be foolish not to mix appropriately, which would include listening on smartphones.

A 'made for smartphones' mix is going to sound pretty odd over a PA system, an expensive hi-fi, a car stereo, or a mono 'smart speaker'.

A mix has to sound 'good' on *everything*. So checking a mix on a smartphone (which I do) is a good idea, but I don't mix *for* smartphones.

Do you not check mixes on small speakers or in a car?

Of course - but that's just to check that it sounds comfortable alongside other commercial mixes. I'm not mixing *for* car speakers.

There's only so far you can take this. Use what you have and with which you are familiar - that will tell you what you need to know. Compare with music that sounds good to you.

What is a "commercially average" mix anyway?

One that sits comfortably at the side of any other 'commercial' mix played back on *any* system.

I'm doing this day in, day out. My mixes HAVE to work on *any* system out there. With this in mind I check my mixes on a number of playback systems, but I certainly don't mix *for* any one of them. In reality, if I notice anything untoward on one system it usually shows itself on others too.

[tea for two]

I have the Beyerdynamic DT990's Pro, which are great, and understand that monitors are always preferable, but I could be moving to a new room with acoustic issues.

Therefore any higher priced headphone recommendations for mixing and mastering gratefully recieved

Probably around £1000 if they are very good alternatives to Studio Monitors

Which styles genres music do you make.

I had high hopes of £3K £2K £1K openbacked headphones I tested thinking they would be brilliant all rounders given their price.
They weren't all rounders.

Headphones I realised at the £1K-£3K are specific to styles of music.
Acoustic Choral Folk Jazz Orchestral World that are brilliant on one £3K headphone same headphone is pretty pants for Dance, DrumnBass, Dub, Grime, Hip Hop, any music with deep bass heavy beats.
And vice versa.
Same story with Electronica, Blues, Metal, Reggae, Rock.

Horses for Courses at £1K-£3K headphones.

For all rounders I've found upto £400 headphones are preferable.

Audio Technica R70x (£270) open backed was my choice for all rounder when comparing to £1K-£3K headphones.
R70x mild easy on the ear (not aggressive in anyway).
But mixes I did on it, the bass translated as a bit too heavy on hifi stereo, bluetooth boom box.

Shure 1840 (£425) is well reviewed by SoS magazine.
Sennheiser HD600 (£270) is preferred by various SoS forumees.

Now I have AKG K712 (£195) open backed as an all rounder and mixes I do on K712 translate fine on hifi stereo, bluetooth boom box, surround sound system, phone.