I'd really appreciate feedback on this mix

[JohnOS]

I'd really appreciate any and all feedback on this mix (and anything at all to do with the song):

https://soundcloud.com/john-o-316118912 ... al_sharing

[Aaron Straley]

To me, the vocal seems a bit too prominent compared to the rest of the track. The instruments could come forward a bit and the vocal could sit back some. I'm hearing maybe too much high end compared to mids and bass

[Sam Inglis]

The production is cool and maintains interest, but the mix is quite tinny. I think you need to pull everything back quite a bit above 2kHz or so. I'd also agree that the vocal sticks out quite a lot.

To my mind the kick drum is too quiet and lacks weight. The snare reverb is perhaps a bit over the top.

It also sounds to me as though there is too much compression on the mix bus. The snare for example doesn't sit at a constant level in the mix -- it comes and goes, I think because it's being pushed down by the vocal.

[Martin Walker]

The production is cool and maintains interest, but the mix is quite tinny.

I totally agree with this, and suspect you may have issues with the balance of your monitor loudspeakers/headphones that cause you to mix with too little bass and far too much top end.

There are a lot of good things in the mix/arrangement though, once this balance has been sorted out.

[Uncovered Pitch]

To combat the issues the previous posters flagged up, I would start with two things:

1. Check your mix frequently on cheap earbuds as they will magnify the problems with your current monitoring.

2. Route all your instrument through a "music buss" and compress that before combining back with the vocal on the mix buss which now needs less compression. In general it's a good idea to "condition" all transient-heavy sounds like drums well before they hit the mix buss.

Also, completely unsolicited, the melodic development in the verses could be more refined. At the moment all the phrases are identical/symmetrical. The top commercial writers somehow manage to subtly vary the metre and pitch direction so that no two phrases are ever the same, unless they are very short.

Finally, the intro is very long compared to the overall length of the song. I'll shut up now...

[OneWorld]

I guess it's the old good cop bad, cop routine

The good, I really like this track, has loads of potential but most importantly, it's catchy, any uncomplimentary critique is objective, as opposed to subjective which means fixes can be made. I think you have a good voice, has a certain beguiling quality.

The not so good - I agree with others, it sounds tinny. I can appreciate there might have been attempts to experiment with the instruments in the way they sound, but instruments are made to sound a particular way, why have a great snare drums that is made to sound a pan lid?

Additionally, you loop around the intro twice, but it is catchy enough to linger in the memory after just once round. The intro could be made more of a punch than a stab, if that makes sense, and then you can get into the song.

I am eager to hear the more refined end result, good luck with the tune and if I were on BGT - you got the Golden Buzzer!

[Exalted Wombat]

Interesting. This may be the first time I've been able to say this about a track here - I heard every word! (Except, perhaps, the echo after 'I got a secret' in the chorus - are there words there?)

Is the flip side of this intelligibility a thin, bass-light mix? Maybe. But I don't think it needs to be quite THIS thin and bass-light.

But someone please tell the West End theatre sound guys that if this is what it takes to let us hear the words, so be it.

[tea for two]

This Lady's voice is crystal clear.
It's like she graduated top of the class from RADA.
I could listen to her on repeat.

Re the sound
I listened on House of Marley closed back headphones that hype the Bass for Reggae, Dub, DrumnBass.
Even on these House of Marley it's Bass light, Kick light.

For beefing up Bass cleanly not boomy I like this free plugin bx_subfilter it has presets.
https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/prod ... ilter.html

For beefing up Kick cleanly not boomy I like this free plugin Bark of Dog it has presets.
https://www.bozdigitallabs.com/product/bark-of-dog/

For $29.99 on sale I like Renaissance Bass for beefing up low end cleanly not boomy.
https://www.waves.com/plugins/renaissan ... gLvLvD_BwE

[JohnOS]

Thanks all for your help! I agree with most of what was said (and really appreciate and considered everything) and this is where I have got to. If you or anyone else can take the time to listen and/or advise it would be great, thanks:

https://soundcloud.com/john-o-316118912 ... al_sharing

[Exalted Wombat]

Can you try a mix with the snare drum down a bit?

[Aaron Straley]

Seems like the snare and vocal are too up front as a combined force and fighting each other for space in the mix. The reverb might be causing the thinner sounding elements, or making things you want to sound up front thinner

[Drew Stephenson]

Interesting track and I prefer the new mix, but it feels to my ignorant ears as if it's lacking some low mids. Like the bass and kick have got the low end, but everything else has been high passed a bit too far up so there's a bit of a gap in the frequency range there.

But I generally like too much bass anyway so maybe ignore me and listen the smarter people above.

[Sam Inglis]

The mix balance is much better now. I'd say the vocal level is spot on, and the bass is nice too. But I agree with Drew that most of the elements are still over-bright and a bit tiring to listen to.

[JohnOS]

Thanks everyone for taking the time - it can't always have been easy listening! I hope I have a better handle on it now - if anyone has any patience left for another listen:

https://soundcloud.com/john-o-316118912 ... al_sharing

Again, I really appreciate any and all feedback.

[Drew Stephenson]

To my ears it's still a little bright but I think we're definitely in the realms of personal preference now.
Good work.

[Exalted Wombat]

I could still stand less snare drum! I think there's a basic drums/bass imbalance. What if you solo those two channels and get it to gel, then add the other stuff?

What IS that (vocoded?) echo after 'I've got a secret'? Are we meant to discern words in it?

In the chorus, the bass is very sparse. If you're going to have just one note covering two bars, should it sustain more? Or have the drums stop as well? It's like HALF the rhythm section falls out, with nothing to replace it.

[Uncovered Pitch]

I still think there are major structural issues with this mix. The vocals are far too loud and totally dominate. This makes the drums and most of the other instruments sound small and tinny, not helped by over-use of low-cut EQs as was previously mentioned. The bass, however, is very loud and sounds rather isolated.

Yes there's a lot of clarity in the mix but it has been "bought" through a lack of warmth and glue. A good mix engineer doesn't have to choose one over the other although the exact sweet spot can still be hard to find and is ultimately a matter of taste. I don't believe this mix is in that "corridor" yet.

Regardless of the monitoring situation, I'd strongly recommend using references in a similar style to arrive at a more professional mix balance. This can be set up in the DAW with mutes and solos but is much more easily done with Metric AB. A small investment to make but one which will be the fastest way to improve this mix and any following ones the OP will make.

[JohnOS]

Thanks everyone. I might have to give it a day or two and come back to it with fresh ears. I'll try to use references too (a big failing of mine) - if anyone has any suggestions of tracks, please let me know.

(this is the same link again to the most recent version: https://soundcloud.com/john-o-316118912 ... al_sharing )

Sorry Exalted Wombat, the "echo" is "You need it" the first time and "I need it" the second time. It's just eq and reverb trying to differentiate it from the lead vocal. It should possibly be a ganged male backing vocal, but it isn't...

I'll see what I can do working from the drums and bass up and I can bring the bass back up where I dropped it in the chorus (seemed like a good idea at the time, but it is wrong).

Re high frequency fatigue etc - I'll try to warm/glue things and I'm sure I'll row back the highs a bit but is it VERY "wrong" bearing in mind that I think it should be an exciting "single" rather than a smooth album track?

I can hear that the snare and vocal levels might be a little too high, but does everyone think they are lot too high or is it personal/style preference?

Thanks again - any and all advice appreciated!

[Martin Walker]

To my ears it's still a little bright but I think we're definitely in the realms of personal preference now.
Good work.

I agree with Drew on this, but nevertheless it's a HUGE improvement.

The vocals could drop in level by a dB or two for my taste. However, the snare level is ok for me, but the extra brightness throughout makes the cymbals in particular very 'fizzy'.

Re high frequency fatigue etc - I'll try to warm/glue things and I'm sure I'll row back the highs a bit but is it VERY "wrong" bearing in mind that I think it should be an exciting "single" rather than a smooth album track?

With this 'exciting' sound in mind, I'd be inclined to dial down the high end a bit, but then try a dynamic EQ on percussive sounds (hihats and so on) that only boosts when the sound it's treating is being heard. This will brighten the transients for that excitement, instead of being fizzy throughout.

Worth a try anyway?

Martin

[Arpangel]

To say this is a bit toppy is an understatement, what on earth are you monitoring on? Version two is a bit better, but it's still got this "tin can" quality, although the vocal level seems fine now, it needs to be on top, like it is.
I don’t know what advice to give, apart from the fact that I wouldn’t present your material like this, are you not hearing what we’ve all heard? If not, there’s something very wrong with your monitoring system.