SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

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SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by sidders »

Does anyone have any schematics or this particular mixer? Would be very helpful especially for the USB interface.
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by Wonks »

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I can't find one, just the manual.

https://d1aeri3ty3izns.cloudfront.net/m ... 274104.pdf

The USB is stated as being output only in the manual, despite the words in the G4M product page, so you probably only get the main stereo mix output over the USB connection. There doesn't seem to be any way of controlling any USB input signal level (if there is one). Probably class compliant, so no dedicated USB drivers for it.

So it's probably OK for recording a gig mix if everything passes through the mixer, but I doubt it would be any good as an audio interface for a DAW as you seem to have no monitoring facility for playback of recorded tracks. Absolutely nothing about that in the manual.

What are you planning to use it for?
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by resistorman »

Better off with a Behringer Flow, which is being blown out on sale here in the US.
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by ef37a »

resistorman wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:09 pm Better off with a Behringer Flow, which is being blown out on sale here in the US.

Just had a look at that Rman and it seems it does not work with PCs?
If so surely a massive, 0.5cal through foot?

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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by MarkOne »

ef37a wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:54 pm
resistorman wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:09 pm Better off with a Behringer Flow, which is being blown out on sale here in the US.

Just had a look at that Rman and it seems it does not work with PCs?
If so surely a massive, 0.5cal through foot?

Dave.

Just looked on the Behringer site (assuming you mean the flow8) and it says
Built-in 10 x 2 channel USB computer audio Interface, with 48 kHz / 24-Bit resolution

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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by Wonks »

I think ef37a was confused by the remote phone app control on the Flow 8. That's just for control, not recording. Otherwise its a digital mixer that can be used as a 10 in 2 out interface. Probably not the best latency figures but you pays your money and you take your choice.
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by ef37a »

Wonks wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:30 pm I think ef37a was confused by the remote phone app control on the Flow 8. That's just for control, not recording. Otherwise its a digital mixer that can be used as a 10 in 2 out interface. Probably not the best latency figures but you pays your money and you take your choice.

Ah, so. Still, it seems odd that such a big player would make a product that did not work with THE most common platform?

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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by Wonks »

But it does!
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by ef37a »

Wonks wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:23 pmBut it does!

"
PC App would be great

Mobile app is awesome, but I really miss a PC application. Having control from a PC is more realiable and practical on some scenarios (when I musicalize an event I do most of the work from pc, and I do requiere a second device for controlling the mixer settings, which sometimes is annoying). Also, it worries me what will happen when this device will be deprecated and future android / ios versions will not support app. Do we need to maintain a old device to control mixer in the future?"

that ^ is what I mean. I do get hissed off with the amount of kit that only talks Apple.

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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by Wonks »

Well that one is Apple and Android for a mobile Bluetooth app, so a wider choice than some.

It's hardly the biggest mixer in the world, so a full web interface for mixer control on wi-fi would have pushed the price up too much.

It seems to be aimed at those who mainly want to set up the channels beforehand and just use the faders after that, with occasional tweaking. Whilst it can be used as an AI, I'd much prefer to use a dedicated AI for that purpose. But if you only rarely need an AI but need a flexible small mixer, then the Flow8 meets that need.
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by Drew Stephenson »

The good Mr Stranks of this parish posted a review a while back: https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... hp?t=77577
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by Wonks »

And currently seems to be around £208-£215 from the major UK outlets.
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by Wonks »

But we've digressed a fair bit from the OPs question and put forward a device that is more than twice the cost of the SubZero mixer, and we don't yet know if the OP already has one or is looking to get one, or what they want to do with it.
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by resistorman »

Wonks wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:01 pm But we've digressed a fair bit from the OPs question and put forward a device that is more than twice the cost of the SubZero mixer, and we don't yet know if the OP already has one or is looking to get one, or what they want to do with it.

:lol: true. However, I think the original mixer posited would be money thrown away compared to the Flow.
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by Wonks »

So you’re saying just go with the Flow? :)
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by Mike Stranks »

Ermm...

We've done it again....

A newbie pops in with a question about, say, mixer A - which presumably they've bought and maybe are not sure about a particular aspect. So they come here looking for help...

... and part (or sometimes the majority) of the 'help' can be to advise the OP that they'd do far better with another mixer!

C'mon guys! Yup, maybe we think, "Hmmm..." about the product in question, but if the person owns it, a response of "You'd be better off with an X" is somewhat discouraging to the person who's just stepping-out into the world that some of us have known for decades.

I made several purchase mistakes in my early days of this caper... The people I was fortunate enough to know who could offer some help didn't tell me to ditch it, but helped me to see how I could get it to work for me. Of course, later I was happy to return to those people and ask for advice about prospective new purchases...

Perhaps starting 'Hmmm...' responses with "If you haven't already bought one..." but then going on to offer practical solutions to the stated issue would be a better way forward.

Jus' sayin'...
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by Wonks »

Hey, Mike.

Just try and put it in some context. The OP hasn’t been back to answer any of the questions asked that are necessary to help him. There aren’t any schematics available for that mixer and the manual is your typical brief Chinese to English translation that gives no details at all. So we can’t answer the OP’s basic question. We don’t know what the stated issue is so we can’t offer solutions at the moment.

Without our questions answered we can’t do anything more apart from speculate on what might be a better product given the interest in USB, so recording obviously plays a role here.

The Flow 8 got mentioned and has to some extent sidetracked the thread a bit, but it is still relevant.

Otherwise the thread would be two posts long; the OP’s and a ’no’ reply and it would be sliding down the page into obscurity. That happens a lot.

If the OP had responded, we wouldn’t be here.
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by ef37a »

Quite right Mike! And I hold my hands up as one of those that diverted the thread. I generally make it a rule to "Answer the *****question!".

Wonks in the first response did give a good account of the probable shortcoming of the mixer. Even if it gave two track record and play over USB the likelyhood is that the results would be noisy, many of these first generation USB mixers were 16 bit (not that that is all bad) and suffered a low level 'whine'.

A very cheap fix suggests itself to me. the Behringer UCA202. This £25 box can work as a line level* interface and gives remarkably good results for such a cheap device, certainly good enough for recording a gig in the Mucky Duck where the noise floor will be determined by the audience (and some of the guitar amps!)

Better would be something like the UMC204HD. OP would of course forget about the USB facility on the actual mixer.

*The 202 is a '-10dBV' device and starts to sound strained at anything over 1V input but with care over levels can be used effectively. In any case that mixer (if the spec is to be believed) could overload most AIs.

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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by Wonks »

ef37a wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:19 am Quite right Mike! And I hold my hands up as one of those that diverted the thread. I generally make it a rule to "Answer the *****question!".

I think Mike’s a little bit off the mark on this particular one. It’s certainly valid for some threads, but for this one, as the OP hasn’t made any particular requirements clear yet, I wouldn’t say so.

And all these last posts are making it worse!
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by Wonks »

Though I must admit to forgetting about the post approval process for new members, so their response time does depend on a mod being available to approve any replies. I apologise for that.
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by resistorman »

Wonks wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:27 am So you’re saying just go with the Flow? :)

Yeah man, dig it!
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by sidders »

OP here. Yes, I already have the mixer. Yes, I have (what passes for) the manual. Yes, there's probably a better one but, it is what it is for now.

The object is to use the mixer with a PC. Use the PC to play a backing (or click) track using USB via the mixer and out to headphones. At the same time record (mic input) an instrument acoustically using the same PC. But not re-recording the click track with the instrument. I guess this involves the USB interface being in and out at the same time?

I do have the beginnings of a schematic but it's currently undergoing some changes after some more testing last weekend. I plan to share it but it might be a while until I can do that. No point sharing it now as it is clearly wrong at the moment.

Thanks for all the posts and discussions.
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by Wonks »

So have you found that you play a stereo track back through the USB connection? And if so is there any way to adjust it's volume not involving adjusting it from the computer or turning the main mixer output volume down?

On some mixer signal flow schematic diagrams I've seen, the USB input feed gets mixed in to the main stereo bus after the USB recording feed gets taken, so there shouldn't be a feedback loop. But sometimes you have to work out a more complicated way to avoid feedback when both recording and playing back.

I know you already have the mixer but this does sound like it will all be a lot easier for you if you had an audio interface rather than the mixer.
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by ef37a »

I agree with Wonks, interface is the way to go and even then you might run into that bogey called "latency".

I do not see how even a correct schematic will help? The USB routing is what it is I don't think you can change that.

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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by James Perrett »

ef37a wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:58 pm I do not see how even a correct schematic will help? The USB routing is what it is I don't think you can change that.

Maybe the OP is prepared to get a scalpel out and cut PCB tracks. You would need a good knowledge of the circuits used but the data sheet for the USB Codec would probably give quite a bit of the information needed.
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by MartinK22 »

Another newbie here. First disclosure, I'm the OP's bro' and was involved in the testing last weekend and I am the author of the previously mentioned schematic which I have now updated.
First question, how can I share the schematic? It is a pdf file. I haven't found a way to share directly on the forum here. I can access MS one drive, drop box or google is any of those would provide a solution.
The schematic is based on a little knowledge and testing with analogue and digital (second disclosure we are doing this using Linux) sources and sinks i.e. it is based on empirical evidence. Would be happy to take constructive feedback to improve it once I can share it. Reason for doing the schematic are various, it is easier to understand than page(s) of text, the manual is inadequate and has errors. You get what you pay for, more expensive kit has better documentation. Sharing would gives other benefit too I would hope.
If someone can tell me best way to post the schematic then we can discuss further. Final disclosure, I'm an electronic engineer by education and sometime employment so opening up and cutting tracks isn't out of the question
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by James Perrett »

Welcome to the forum Martin. We don't host files here so the best way would be to put it up as a public file on Dropbox, Google Drive, Onedrive or similar and then post a link here.
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by ef37a »

MartinK22 wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:51 pm Another newbie here. First disclosure, I'm the OP's bro' and was involved in the testing last weekend and I am the author of the previously mentioned schematic which I have now updated.
First question, how can I share the schematic? It is a pdf file. I haven't found a way to share directly on the forum here. I can access MS one drive, drop box or google is any of those would provide a solution.
The schematic is based on a little knowledge and testing with analogue and digital (second disclosure we are doing this using Linux) sources and sinks i.e. it is based on empirical evidence. Would be happy to take constructive feedback to improve it once I can share it. Reason for doing the schematic are various, it is easier to understand than page(s) of text, the manual is inadequate and has errors. You get what you pay for, more expensive kit has better documentation. Sharing would gives other benefit too I would hope.
If someone can tell me best way to post the schematic then we can discuss further. Final disclosure, I'm an electronic engineer by education and sometime employment so opening up and cutting tracks isn't out of the question

I would advise caution Martin about posting that schematic. "Sub Zero" is a brand name 'owned' by Gear4Music Ltd and they might not take too kindly to a schematic of one of their products being bandied on the net. Also the internet is not the 'free lunch' it used to be. Lots of images are copyright now and some companies WILL chase you down!

I shall now make a bit nonsense the above! I personally believe schematics should be freely available to everyone so that servicing can be readily effected. We MUST fix more! This was normally the case with 'professional' audio kit, indeed a 'map' often came in the box. Nagra even put in spare transistors!
However the coming of the rip off artists has put paid to that situation and I personally have a good deal of such commercially valuable information. I have never posted it but that did not stop a certain 'household name" copying at least two of the amplifiers.

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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by Drew Stephenson »

ef37a wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:27 pm I would advise caution Martin about posting that schematic. "Sub Zero" is a brand name 'owned' by Gear4Music Ltd and they might not take too kindly to a schematic of one of their products being bandied on the net. Also the internet is not the 'free lunch' it used to be. Lots of images are copyright now and some companies WILL chase you down!

If Martin has created the image then he owns the copyright. Likewise if he's backward-engineered the schematic from experimentation there's going to be no trade secrets or other IP involved there that I can think of? If there's a patent involved then it will be registered and searchable at a patent office and design rights just cover the look of the thing.
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Re: SubZero SZ-MIX08USB

Post by Wonks »

I think we’re talking about a signal flow schematic here, not a circuit diagram.
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