Monitor Controller Question

[Briz]

In my basic setup, I have the Clarett+ 8pre as my audio interface. I use Pro Tools Studio as my DAW. With the recent incorporation of 3 outboard gear units, I'm running out of of inputs and outputs.

In the past, I've mixed with one set of monitors and ITB. So here's my situation: I want to add Avantone Pro Active MixCubes to my setup. Eventually, I'll add more ins and outs via ADAT, but until then I need to keep 4 inputs open.

I've never used a monitor controller before, outside of a Mackie Big Knob years ago. I'd like to A/B between the Focals and MixCubes.
I've been researching active controllers and two keep popping up: Audient Nero and Drawmer MC2.1. My budget is around $700 USD or less. What do you recommend in this price range? Thanks in advance for your advice and recommendations.

[Aaron Straley]

Here is what I use to switch between monitors. Works perfectly for that

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... e-selector

[sonics]

I've used the PreSonus Central Station Plus in a couple of studios. It seemed to work well enough. I've heard rumours of quality or longevity issues, though I've not seen that personally.

[Luke W]

I don't think you can go far wrong with any of the Drawmer units. No experience of using them myself, but if I remember correctly there are certainly a few people on here that are very happy with them. I understand that they perform very well given their price point as well.

In case you'd not spotted it, here's a review of the MC2.1

[Hugh Robjohns]

My budget is around $700 USD or less. What do you recommend in this price range?

Other than switching between two sets of stereo monitors (which could be achieved with a much less expensive switch box), what monitor controller facilities do you require?

There are a couple of Drawmer and SPL options within budget, as well as the Presonus and some Coleman switchers.

But they have quite significantly different feature sets, so you need to think about what you need/want to avoid paying for things you'll never use.

[Briz]

My budget is around $700 USD or less. What do you recommend in this price range?

Other than switching between two sets of stereo monitors (which could be achieved with a much less expensive switch box), what monitor controller facilities do you require?

There are a couple of Drawmer and SPL options within budget, as well as the Presonus and some Coleman switchers.

But they have quite significantly different feature sets, so you need to think about what you need/want to avoid paying for things you'll never use.

Mainly, I'd like to A/B, listen in mono, and preserve the sound of the monitors without altering or coloring the output. Nice-to-haves would be talk back and dimming. If there's a controller out there for less, believe me, I'd gladly prefer to spend less. I will not be using a sub, and I won't need immersive audio capabilities. Thanks.

[Bob Bickerton]

As has been said, it’s really down to the facilities you require. Having said that, I’ve been well pleased with the Drawmer CMC2 which is around 50% of your budget. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... controller

Bob

[Briz]

As has been said, it’s really down to the facilities you require. Having said that, I’ve been well pleased with the Drawmer CMC2 which is around 50% of your budget. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... controller

Bob

Thank you. I appreciate the recommendation. I'll definitely check it out. Alternatively, have you (or anyone else here) used outputs 3 & 4 (or any combination) on your audio interface and simply changed the output routing on the master in your DAW? I'm just thinking here, but maybe it might be easier to add 8 more inputs via ADAT and use the 8 ins and outs on my audio interface for outboard gear and monitors and the 8 additional inputs for tracking. I don't know if that might be an option, or how I'd sum to mono.

[sonics]

Alternatively, have you (or anyone else here) used outputs 3 & 4 (or any combination) on your audio interface and simply changed the output routing on the master in your DAW?

I use an RME interface, which has very configurable software, so yes. I don't have any need for talkback ATM, but could incorporate it if I did, I'm sure. It works very well, is easy to control and means no additional audio processing, which I'm very happy about. The software takes care of the Chinese food (dim, sum etc. - sorry!)

[Moroccomoose]

This is exactly what I do. I have mains on 1&2, a quirk in my interface makes having headphones on 3&4 convenient (it has 2 headphone outs, but the first headphone is on channels 1&2 so the volume is tied to monitor volume, putting them on 3&4 means I have independent physical volume controls) and I have an out to my hifi on 5&6. I use Cubase control room to switch between the three. In reaper, I set up a similar function using sends that can be turned on and off. And I have ADAT expansion but for other stuff, not my monitoring.
I also use the interface control panel to select the outputs if not using a DAW.

Stu.

[ef37a]

Hi Briz, I strongly suggest you avoid passive controllers. I cannot speak for any others but I have checked the circuits in the Mackie BK Passive and it is a strange design that could cause distortion and definitely unbalances sources.

Dave.

[MarkOne]

I've used the PreSonus Central Station Plus in a couple of studios. It seemed to work well enough. I've heard rumours of quality or longevity issues, though I've not seen that personally.

I have had it's baby brother the Monitor Station V2 for several years now and it seems to work very well, no quality issues, very well built and loads of switching flexibility (2 stereo sources, an Aux switchable from Line to SPDIF, three speaker outputs, four headphone outs...) Sound quality is pretty good, it seems low noise and transparent.

[Kwackman]

Mainly, I'd like to A/B, listen in mono, and preserve the sound of the monitors without altering or coloring the output. Nice-to-haves would be talk back and dimming

It's not a standalone monitor controller, but the Audient iD22 interface gives all the monitoring facilities you mentioned. It's cheaper than the Nero....

[Hugh Robjohns]

Alternatively, have you (or anyone else here) used outputs 3 & 4 (or any combination) on your audio interface and simply changed the output routing on the master in your DAW?

Yes. If you have sufficient available outputs it can work well. Instead of a conventional hardware monitor controller, you control the monitoring via software, either using the interface controller app, or the DAW itself.

Cubase/Nuendo have very good virtual monitor controller facilities, but many other DAWs can be set up to perform similar functions.

I don't know if that might be an option, or how I'd sum to mono.

Summing to mono is often easier in a DAW than in an external controller (especially passive controllers).

But if you want the versatility of a hardware controller, Bob's suggestion for the small Drawmer is good...

[Luke W]

If you do decide to go for the software route, then Brainworx bx_solo is free, and can sit on your master output and offer some useful monitoring features that not all DAWs have built in.

[Briz]

I know that the Heritage Audio Baby RAM is passive, but has anyone used this unit?

[Peevy]

I know that the Heritage Audio Baby RAM is passive, but has anyone used this unit?

I swapped out my Drawmer cmc2 for the Heritage Audio Baby RAM. I had ground hum issues through my monitors with the Drawmer and instead of faffing about, decided to go passive (The Drawmer also had a scratchy left channel)

I’ve been exceedingly happy with the Baby Ram. It does everything I need it to do and I can use software for the monitoring bells and whistles if needed. It sounds good to my ears (mine are not expert ears) I also love the stepped gain as it’s easier to maintain consistent listening levels. It has a lovely big volume control. It does click through the gain steps and when I first tried it out, I wasn’t sure if I liked that. But I now find it oddly reassuring It’s also built like a tank.

[Martin Walker]

If you do decide to go for the software route, then Brainworx bx_solo is free, and can sit on your master output and offer some useful monitoring features that not all DAWs have built in.

I echo this recommendation, and have used bx_solo a lot, both as a simple stereo widener, but more often so I can listen to the side signal on its own (great for examining commercial mixes for instance).

[Briz]

Thank you all for your help. I have bx_solo - I'll give it a try. I'm going to roll the dice and try the Baby RAM for the short term. If it lives up to the hype, problem solved. If not, I'll step up to one of the active controllers mentioned (Nero, Drawmer, et. al). Thanks again!

[Martin Walker]

I swapped out my Drawmer cmc2 for the Heritage Audio Baby RAM. I had ground hum issues through my monitors with the Drawmer and instead of faffing about, decided to go passive (The Drawmer also had a scratchy left channel)

I’ve been exceedingly happy with the Baby Ram. It does everything I need it to do and I can use software for the monitoring bells and whistles if needed. It sounds good to my ears (mine are not expert ears) I also love the stepped gain as it’s easier to maintain consistent listening levels. It has a lovely big volume control. It does click through the gain steps and when I first tried it out, I wasn’t sure if I liked that. But I now find it oddly reassuring It’s also built like a tank.

Hadn't come across this one before, but it not only looks impressive with its Neve-like knob, is reasonably priced, but apparently features a 24-step rotary switch instead of a pot, to offer 0.1dB precision on each of its 24 positions

[sonics]

That knob is the wrong thing to use there. It will encourage the hand into nasty contortions!

If you look at something like a 2254/A, those knobs are used for switches, and a round knob is use for variable controls like threshold (if memory serves!). A stepped volume control may be a switch, technically, but it's not used like one. That's an ill-informed design choice I think. I would reject it solely for that reason, however well it worked.
<rant over>

[ef37a]

The knob would not put me off the Baby Ram, but a moment's work with a screwdriver or Allen key. No it is it's passive nature that I dislike.

You are limited in cable lengths from a passive controller to monitors depending upon the resistive value of the main control (and by convention it should not be less than 10k). I would also like a schematic of the internals to see how they have arranged Mono and Dim. But, maybe I am just suspicious after my findings with the BKP?
It might seem paradoxical but it is possible for a passive attenuator to introduce MORE noise than an active one.

Dave.

[ConcertinaChap]

So here's my situation: I want to add Avantone Pro Active MixCubes to my setup.

Not an answer to your question but I'm curious why you're going for a pair of Mixcubes in your setup. I've got just one and this gives me all I want in terms of sound plus an easy way of checking mono sound. The Drawmer controllers (and I'm another fan) have a mono output notionally to handle a sub-woofer but it makes a very convenient point to connect a single Mixcube.

CC

[sonics]

I would also like a schematic of the internals to see how they have arranged Mono and Dim. But, maybe I am just suspicious after my findings with the BKP?

I have to agree. I don't like the placement of the buttons below the control knob or the description, and would most definitely want to see that schematic before I strapped that device across my output bus!

[Briz]

So here's my situation: I want to add Avantone Pro Active MixCubes to my setup.

Not an answer to your question but I'm curious why you're going for a pair of Mixcubes in your setup. I've got just one and this gives me all I want in terms of sound plus an easy way of checking mono sound. The Drawmer controllers (and I'm another fan) have a mono output notionally to handle a sub-woofer but it makes a very convenient point to connect a single Mixcube.

CC

I like the MixCubes because they help me identify problems in the midrange. I've used EQ curves in the past, but the MixCubes just work better for me. While I do sum to mono, I also like to reference in stereo. They've helped me (a musician who's a mediocre audio engineer out of necessity) dial in my mixes. I hated them at first, but I've grown fond of them over the years. Thanks for your input on Drawmer. I'm going to try the Baby RAM for a couple of weeks. If it doesn't work as advertised, I'll send it back and pick up a Drawmer or the Audient Nero.

While I understand that the internet is full of opinions, I've seen quite a bit of negative reviews on the Drawmer's in my range - same for the Nero. Mainly intermittent signal loss, scratchy pots, et. al. Have you experienced anything like that with your Drawmer?

[Drew Stephenson]

My Drawmer (CMC-2) had the scratchy pot issue. Didn't get around to doing anything about it until it was just out of the two year warranty (because I'm a muppet) but Drawmer were happy to send out the replacement part for something like £16? It's a really simple fix - doesn't even need a soldering iron.

[ConcertinaChap]

On my MC2.1 I had a period when, without affecting the sound at all, a relay kept clicking and generally sounding annoying. It was a flakey and would never happen when the unit was with Drawmer but I had a recording I'd made of the sound and they believed that and replaced the complete motherboard which cured the problem. Two things to note. 1) Throughout I was talking to their QA manager, not some wally in a call centre; 2) They never charged me anything for any of this even though the unit was years out of warranty and the unit has performed faultlessly ever since. I have a huge regard for their customer support as a result of this and wouldn't think twice about buying more of their kit if it was what I was looking for.

CC

[Briz]

On my MC2.1 I had a period when, without affecting the sound at all, a relay kept clicking and generally sounding annoying. It was a flakey and would never happen when the unit was with Drawmer but I had a recording I'd made of the sound and they believed that and replaced the complete motherboard which cured the problem. Two things to note. 1) Throughout I was talking to their QA manager, not some wally in a call centre; 2) They never charged me anything for any of this even though the unit was years out of warranty and the unit has performed faultlessly ever since. I have a huge regard for their customer support as a result of this and wouldn't think twice about buying more of their kit if it was what I was looking for.

CC

That's nice to know. Great customer service is hard to come by. Knowing that a company stands behind their products & respects their customers is a huge plus.

I saw a social media post recently from Audient, from a few years back, which addressed Nero's reported quality issues. I believe they offered extended warranties to past & current customers at the time.

I nearly bought the Drawmer CMC2, but I saw numerous reviews in a variety of unrelated places that stated the rear jacks weren't secured to the chassis and were causing issues. I'm sure there's always going to be a gripe and grievance with any product. I was just hoping to buy a controller that would last 5-8yrs without breaking the bank. I figured I'd give the cheaper option a try to see if it works as advertised. We'll see.

[James Perrett]

I was just hoping to buy a controller that would last 5-8yrs without breaking the bank.

While I don't use a Drawmer monitor controller, I still have a compressor of theirs that I bought new in the 1980s which still works absolutely fine. I've never had any problems with it. I would expect a piece of Drawmer kit to pretty much last a lifetime with perhaps just the odd minor repair needed.

[Bob Bickerton]

I've had a CMC2 for 4 years and the jacks seem very secure.

The pot's a little scratchy now, but that's just maintenance....... which reminds me......

Bob