Monitor upgrade from Adam A7X

[RobinC]

My project studio measure approx 3m x 5.5m. It has some amount of room treatment on all walls and the ceiling from GIK.

I’m currently using Adam A7Xs for my monitors which I’ve always liked but never loved

I’ve got a budget of up to 3.5k to change my monitors.

I’d initially been drawn to HEDD Type 20 and Neumann KH310. I did manage to audition both though not in my room. I preferred the Neumanns. It’s no easy for me to get to places to audition monitors (rural location) so I have to do some pruning of choices before taking a trip out.

Whilst googling came across a thread on here from Mike Senior extolling the virtues of the Neumann KH80s paired with KH750 sub and Neumanns dsp software

This got me thinking whether in reality this is a better route for me to pursue rather than the KH310s. All things being equal would I notice an upgrade vs my Adams?

Whilst I do have treatment in my room i am aware it’s a room of compromises (lots of glass along one wall, different construction methods on 2 of the 3 other walls, a door in the corner etc.), so my thinking was maybe in such a place the KH80s/KH750 may perform as well as the KH310s

[Drew Stephenson]

Hugh Robjohns has 310s and also wrote the review of the KH80s in SOS (but without the 750 sub) so I'd wait until he sees this thread and provides a bit of hands on experience.

[Mike Stranks]

I’m currently using Adam A7Xs for my monitors which I’ve always liked but never loved...

Leaving aside the pros and cons of these, or any other, monitors I'm a bit uneasy about terms like 'love' wrt to monitors.

To me, that implies something about liking (or more) the sound they produce. IMO it's accuracy that's paramount with any decent monitor, not whether/not they produce a pleasing sound.

But then, maybe that's what you meant....

[RobinC]

To me, that implies something about liking (or more) the sound they produce. IMO it's accuracy that's paramount with any decent monitor, not whether/not they produce a pleasing sound.

My interest in the KH310s really stemmed from seeing them described on various forums as boring but then noticing that a number of people who worked with audio actually owned them.

My studio is also my principle place to listen to music, I'm more than happy to listen to music hopefully as close a reproduction as possible to the sound that the artist signed off on. So I think it probably is possible to love a monitor for being as neutral as possible.

WRT to the Adams, I find there are times that I can pick up on a little bit of harshness in the highs. They certainly aren't harsh speakers and I'm not detecting this on the majority of tracks (mine or other artists) but occasionally I'm hearing something subtle that I don't like and its enough to dampen my enthusiasm for them

[ef37a]

I’m currently using Adam A7Xs for my monitors which I’ve always liked but never loved...

Leaving aside the pros and cons of these, or any other, monitors I'm a bit uneasy about terms like 'love' wrt to monitors.

To me, that implies something about liking (or more) the sound they produce. IMO it's accuracy that's paramount with any decent monitor, not whether/not they produce a pleasing sound.

But then, maybe that's what you meant....

Haha! Yes, that pushed my buttons as well Mike. I think a monitor should be like a very good friend but one that always tells you the unvarnished truth about yourself and your doings, whether you want them to or not!

You will never 'love' them but you will always respect them.

Dave.

[jaminem]

...As an owner and user (and yesh i'm very happy to shay a lover) of the KH310's over the past 7 odd years, i have to say that if I was buying now i'd probably be looking at the KH150/KH750 combo.

Why?

No complaints regarding the sound and/or accuracy of the 310's at all, its just that I use Sonarworks which causes an insignificant but rather annoying workflow quirk when switching between my other sets of monitors in that you have to change the SW profile for each set of speakers.

Now, there is a workround in Cubase where you can use the control room and setup an instance of SW with a profile for each speaker, but that renders the speaker switching on my monitor controller redundant...which is annoying as its a rather nice Dangerous D-Box+, the workround for this is to use a stream deck to switch between the control room outputs...

And that's the (albeit minor) annoyance - if the 310's had DSP, i'd use the Neumann correction which would live in the monitors, and change my smaller Dynaudio LYD 5's for the new Adam's which can host a SW profile...then my D-Box is now utilised again.

First world problem I know...but just something to consider.
What it does highlight is that if SW created a 3 stereo in, 3 stereo out box that could host the profiles on a DSP then you could easily use any monitor controller with any monitor and still get the benefit of SW on each speaker set...

[Wonks]

Just remember what Hugh mentioned in another thread about monitor correction DSP vs DAW correction software that the monitor correction software is a lot more broad-brush in its approach, with smaller Q values and probably far fewer correction bands. So you probably won't get quite as flat a response with monitor-based correction software than DAW-based.

As ever, the more room treatment you have, the easier the correction software's job is, wherever it is based.

[jaminem]

Just remember what Hugh mentioned in another thread about monitor correction DSP vs DAW correction software that the monitor correction software is a lot more broad-brush in its approach, with smaller Q values and probably far fewer correction bands. So you probably won't get quite as flat a response with monitor-based correction software than DAW-based.

I know this, which is why the HW based SW DSP host would be a really good product if someone could come up with it....

[Hugh Robjohns]

Trinnov already did...

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/tr ... -la-remote

...but there are also plenty of monitor speakers now with built-in room-correction dsp if that's what you want.

And I agree that it's frustrating so few DAWs have decent monitoring options. Cubase/Nuendo have set the standard there.

...but, if you take the view that your monitors are well designed and don't need further correction, you could compromise with the room correction software and come up with a generic response to just deal with the room mode issues which broadly affect all speakers.

[jaminem]

...A snip at a mere £7-10K

[Wonks]

Though worthwhile if you've got three sets of £10k+ monitors.

[Hugh Robjohns]

...A snip at a mere £7-10K

... and that's why no one else has gone down the same route. It's a very small market with low demand. But it's also extremely complex to do (Trinnov's speaker correction software is still a cut above most others), and it needs relatively expensive hardware (a full fast computer, plus a full set of very high quality A-Ds and D-As for as many I/O channels as you need, and a four-channel alignment mic!)

[RobinC]

i have to say that if I was buying now i'd probably be looking at the KH150/KH750 combo.

After more pondering that's the conclusion I've come to. I do use Sonarworks and having spent some time moving my speakers around, measuring then moving them again I think some level of DSP processing is needed in addition to the treatment that I have in the room.

I've ordered today the KH150 and the MA1. No sub yet as I think it makes sense for me to get these new monitors installed and sounding as good as I can make them in my room before adding another variable. They've got a deeper bass extension than my existing Adams so all being well I will be able to hear a benefit in the low end - and if I can't then it probably makes sense to look at the room again before introducing a sub anyway.

Hopefully these new monitors will hit the spot and I will develop an affection for them over time.

[jimjazzdad]

I think Hugh Robjohns will be starting an advice column, counseling engineers on their relationship problems with their studio monitors...

[Hugh Robjohns]

Established 1997...

[Zukan]

I think Hugh Robjohns will be starting an advice column, counseling engineers on their relationship problems with their studio monitors...

He helped me through a particularly difficult time when my PMCs crackled. They cut me deep...real deep.

[Arpangel]

I remember a time when engineers used "proper" speakers, no messing about.
Monitors are like a window onto your sound, the bigger the window, the more you can see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDVnO5gFYk

I’d love a pair of these, especially in my basement.

[jimjazzdad]

I remember a time when engineers used "proper" speakers, no messing about.
Monitors are like a window onto your sound, the bigger the window, the more you can see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDVnO5gFYk

I’d love a pair of these, especially in my basement.

Yes, they would sound so good when your fed them your latest mix as an MP3 via Bluetooth from your iPhone...

[James Perrett]

I remember a time when engineers used "proper" speakers, no messing about.
Monitors are like a window onto your sound, the bigger the window, the more you can see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDVnO5gFYk

I’d love a pair of these, especially in my basement.

Those drivers look so randomly positioned that I wonder whether they give you any kind of stereo image. I'd be much happier with these

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2Y3VDUhKmw

because I know I'll get pin sharp imaging and the ability to hear tiny eq changes.

[Sam Spoons]

They are cheap though, under £30k