Alternatives to RME?

[Hugh Robjohns]

Arpangel has a dislike of RME interfaces since having one which was probably faulty and insists they have a nasty ‘sound’, which no one else hears.

I doubt his RME was faulty. I'd bet it was being overloaded and/or the signal path was being pushed too hard.

It wasn't that long ago that Tony was seeking recommendations for comp/lims to control peaks going into his converters. Tony and headroom have never been comfortable bed fellows!

The one thing guaranteed to highlight differences between preamps is to overload them. With some, overloads are sudden, obvious and sound terrible. Others are more progressive and can sound fairly benign with musically pleasing saturation/distortion. Often people use or even rely on the overload behaviour as part of their desired sound. I think, based on previous conversations, that Tony often does....

I wouldn't describe RME's preamp overload characteristic as benign or pleasing, but some Focusrite preamps are certainly more forgiving...

Another likely issue in Tony's situation is the source feeding the interface — Tony was using a mixer. Knowing that Tony typically recorded with very little headroom at the time, it is quite possible that the RME interface was configured to need quite hot input signal levels (up to +19dBu, for the 'hi' mode), and consequently the mixer was being pushed pretty hard and sounded strained as a result — a common digital interfacing problem. Again, some focusrite interfaces expect lower line input signal levels (as do Behringer interfaces) thus reducing strain on the analogue mixer considerably and appearing to have a 'better' sound when, in reality, the better sound was due to a less harassed mixer. This would be particularly evident with a Mackie mixer....

In a nutshell, what I'm saying is that there are many potential reasons for a system acquiring 'a sound' . Some technical, some operational. And without a full understanding and isolation of individual elements its unfair and damaging to ascribe characteristics to one device absolutely.

[Mike Stranks]

Thanks Hugh!

Excellent post giving some welcome perspective.

[Arpangel]

In a nutshell, what I'm saying is that there are many potential reasons for a system acquiring 'a sound' . Some technical, some operational. And without a full understanding and isolation of individual elements its unfair and damaging to ascribe characteristics to one device absolutely.

I did change more than one element of my system at that point.
The chaps at Synthax came round to my place with another unit to help sort this out, they were great, and we performed some blind tests, it was difficult to tell what was playing, results were too variable.
There’s nothing more I can say, apart from if anyone buying an interface is reading this, don’t base your purchasing decisions on what you’ve read here, the deciding factors are many and varied, and some things are just down to personal preferences, that’s it.

[sonics]

People always recommend RME because of their driver/support.

I’ve never heard them recommended solely on sound quality.

I don't think that's fair. If their drivers were middle-of-the-road I think you'd find the hardware would still be recommended for its clean audio. Having such excellent drivers and longevity as well means that those factors are always brought up in discussions, as they should be!

Also TotalMix is way too complicated and not up to date GUI wise.

Those things aren't really deal-breakers when choosing audio gear.

[Sam Spoons]

Also TotalMix is way too complicated and not up to date GUI wise.

There are a couple of people on here who would disagree strongly with that statement. One mans 'way too complicated' is another mans 'sophisticated and fully featured'.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder....

[OneWorld]

At one point I couldn't see the point of Total Mix, it seemed to be made complicated just for the sake of it. I had come from other interfaces where the setup was far easier and intuitive.

Then I started reading the manual and it all became clear to me, and in fact, logically, it makes perfect sense, simplicity itself. Thing is, there is a lot of simplicity, it aspires to accommodate any setup.

Now, if and when I update my interface, I would be reluctant to move away from RME because I like the Total Mix so much.

[Essex Boi]

Now, if and when I update my interface, I would be reluctant to move away from RME because I like the Total Mix so much.

You don’t have to leave the RME stable or lose TotalMix to update your interface. A Digiface USB lets you to use an interface of your choosing (assuming ADAT inputs/outputs). The Digiface might seem expensive for a box that doesn’t really do anything (no preamps or converters), but I’ve recently gone down this route and it’s a revelation. I can pick and choose a collection of preamps and converters for input and a completely separate set of gear for output. And I’m confident RME will continue to update the driver for years to come making the whole rig as future proof as I could realistically expect.

[Arpangel]

At one point I couldn't see the point of Total Mix, it seemed to be made complicated just for the sake of it.

This is in no way a stab at the German people, every nation, and its people, have their characteristics.
German software, TotalMix, Samplitude, Reaktor, Reason, all have this initial intimidation, they seem overly complicated, it’s like, the designer is working in a bubble, and isn’t thinking about the large variety of end users, and how they might cope with it.
I have Reaktor, and Reason, I can "use them" but do I have the "big picture" in my head? no, I muddle through not really knowing what I’m doing.
British software is sort of like this, but not quite, I do find American equipment, and software instantly easy to understand and user friendly.

[forumuser840717]

At one point I couldn't see the point of Total Mix, it seemed to be made complicated just for the sake of it.

This is in no way a stab at the German people, every nation, and its people, have their characteristics.
German software, TotalMix, Samplitude, Reaktor, Reason, all have this initial intimidation, they seem overly complicated, it’s like, the designer is working in a bubble, and isn’t thinking about the large variety of end users, and how they might cope with it.
I have Reaktor, and Reason, I can "use them" but do I have the "big picture" in my head? no, I muddle through not really knowing what I’m doing.
British software is sort of like this, but not quite, I do find American equipment, and software instantly easy to understand and user friendly.

And this is in no way a stab at Arpangel, who definitely has his own characteristics.

You do talk some bobbins sometimes!

I've used recording/DAW software in one form or another since the 1980s and I've never noticed a geographical pattern in how it does whatever it does.

All software has a learning curve and different people process that curve differently due to their varying experiences, needs, likes and dislikes. It's just a matter of progressing through each learning curve and finding things that suit one's approach.

All but the most basic software seems intimidating and overly complicated until one is used to it. Whether one takes the time to get used to it depends on whether the rewards justify the effort and whether they can be achieved in a way which suits the user better than another bit of software.

[Arpangel]

And this is in no way a stab at Arpangel, who definitely has his own characteristics.

You do talk some bobbins sometimes!

I've used recording/DAW software in one form or another since the 1980s and I've never noticed a geographical pattern in how it does whatever it does.

All software has a learning curve and different people process that curve differently due to their varying experiences, needs, likes and dislikes. It's just a matter of progressing through each learning curve and finding things that suit one's approach.

All but the most basic software seems intimidating and overly complicated until one is used to it. Whether one takes the time to get used to it depends on whether the rewards justify the effort and whether they can be achieved in a way which suits the user better than another bit of software.

Arturia great, Valhalla same, Reaper took me about 10mins to learn all I need, coming from Samplitude it was a revelation.
Samplitude was impenetrable, Reaktor same, Kontakt same, Reason you go in you can't find your way out, it’s a maze.
All of the above are great programs but some seem to make it as difficult as they can for to do what you want to do, easily.
Not all of us are computer experts, and don’t what to be, sometimes it’s like these things are designed by engineers for engineers, not musicians.
Regarding certain equipment, software, we have our opinions, and mine aren’t going to change, it’s good there’s enough out there to please most people.

[Hugh Robjohns]

...it’s like these things are designed by engineers for engineers, not musicians.

Germany believes in technical education. It shows in their approach to many things, including product design. Personally, I like that!

If you invest some effort into reading the manual and understanding the underlying mindset these products are phenomenally powerful and remarkably straightforward to use. If you don't, they aren't and appear complex and impenetrable.

In which case, go find something simpler that better suits your level of involvement.

[Arpangel]

...it’s like these things are designed by engineers for engineers, not musicians.

Germany believes in technical education. It shows in their approach to many things, including product design. I like that!

Basically, some of us, like me, are idiots regarding certain technical things, we aren’t all created equal, unfortunately some designers don't take this into account, that’s why I like American stuff, they know how to "idiot proof" things. What they remember is that idiots, are also "customers" too.
My particular affliction is a block regarding numbers, maths, a complicated page of software does the same, puts my brain into melt down, a mental panic that I find paralysing.

[The Elf]

There was a saying oft quoted in IT circles: "Design it for idiots and only an idiot will want to use it."

[Luke W]

I've recently moved over to RME, and I've found TotalMix to be pretty logical. Anything that comprehensive will always have a bit of a learning curve, but it could certainly be a lot worse. I've not spent too much time with it, but I've simply hidden the various bits I don't want or need and labelled everything to match my I/O, that's made a big difference.

[Hugh Robjohns]

...we aren’t all created equal, unfortunately some designers don't take this into account...

Why should they? Making something genuinely idiot proof inherently also simplifies it, reducing it's versatility and capability. I get why some designers and manufacturers aren't prepared to do that.

They're aiming products at people who appreciate the design capabilities.

If you don't, find something simpler and be happy with that — but don't criticise a product you simply don't understand or can't be bothered to invest effort in understanding.

[Matt Houghton]

There was a saying oft quoted in IT circles: "Design it for idiots and only an idiot will want to use it."

It's probably a bigger market!

Seriously, though, idiots and braniacs can both be served by the asme product. I must admit, I preferred the older version of Totalmix, before the DSP FX came along and necessarily made the interface busier. But the whole point about it is that a 'friendly' view is possible, and so too is lots of logically laid out info in one screen...

[OneWorld]

German software impenetrable???

I have one word to say - Cubase

There must be a reason Cubase became to go to DAW for many people

If anyone needs a coder to produce instantly accessible software, I'd suggest go see the coders at TikTok, it's almost become addictive, no wonder the USA wants the forced sale of TikTok, so FaceBook can buy it and get at those algorithms they can't figure out - You heard it here first

[jaminem]

If you take the Fireface UFX+…to be honest, who needs that much I/O‘s?

I do, i've expanded it with a 32 channel Ferrofish as well - lots of hardware fx and instruments over here...
AND I use a patchbay....

[Martin Walker]

I've recently moved over to RME, and I've found TotalMix to be pretty logical. I've not spent too much time with it, but I've simply hidden the various bits I don't want or need and labelled everything to match my I/O, that's made a big difference.

Same here - once the input and output names reflect your real-world hardware, TotalMix becomes a lot clearer.

[Arpangel]

If you don't, find something simpler and be happy with that — but don't criticise a product you simply don't understand or can't be bothered to invest effort in understanding.

Maybe I should stop beating about the bush and just say I don’t like the sound of it.

[Mike Stranks]

Can we stop now, please?

Everything that could possibly be said has been said - some of it several times.

[Arpangel]

Can we stop now, please?

Everything that could possibly be said has been said - some of it several times.

I’ve said what I’ve said, yes, let’s stop.

[rggillespie]

Well its back to square one for me! Andertons now have the RME UCXii in stock and I was very happy to get it today. I'm sure it's a professionals piece of kit but its a bridge too far if you don't know your spdif from your adat from your DSP. Four hours after unboxing I'm yet to get a sound out of it. It ships without a manual now, and as someone who likes to have the info in front of me to go through that's a negative. There's not even a quick start guide to help you along, for the expense that's poor. I eventually managed to get total mix to appear but its looks different to my old fireface 400 one and I felt there was another learning curve there. May be they have totalmix templates ready for new users to get them started? I couldn't find them if they do. Their graphics look dingy and old as the hills, personally not very inspiring. RME have some videos to get you started but as I had no sound that wasn't best pleasing. The display on the unit itself is busy and postage stamp tiny meaning you have to be close to read it. I know rme is loved universally here for its drivers and reliability, but I've found you need to have a fair level of expertise to get it working. I've accepted defeat, it will go back and I will now look for a two channel interface that's user friendly. Back to the drawing board it seems............
To their credit my old fireface 400 worked straightaway on being re-connected, what a relief that was!