Need help finding work or intern opportunities

[Laggard]

Hello. Not sure if this is the right place for this but couldn’t find any place more appropriate.

I’m 57 and unemployed. Spent the last thirty years doing boring shit work. I live in Hollywood. Land of 200 studios and 10,000 20 year olds willing to work for free just to get in the door.

Just received some job retraining money. I know I’m told old to get into engineering. I would love to find some paid or part time unpaid ancillary job that would get me in or around the studio. I’ll run cable, answer the phone or take out the trash. I’ve called a couple smaller studios with no interest expressed.

Can anyone provide some guidance?

I have not worked in a studio since my college dj days. Did some live engineering and sound at a couple venues. Recorded a couple albums with my band. That’s about it.

Hope all are well. Thanks!

[Hugh Robjohns]

Welcome to the SOS forums. I'm afraid I can't really help with your search for studio work, I'm afraid, but I really sympathise with your position and the difficulty of competing with young people willing to work for nothing.

I think this industry works on a who-you-know basis far more than what-you-know, so it might help if you can get to as many industry networking events as possible and build contacts and introductions.

For example you could join the AES and go along to their local chapter meetings... and there are other relevant organisations doing similar things.

Also, don't restrict yourself to music recording studios. There are a lot of audio for video facilities that might need runners, etc.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck.

[Arpangel]

Just a thought, maybe start thinking about how you can get into audio/recording on your own, not in a commercial studio.
All you have to do is wake up tomorrow morning and say "I’m an engineer"
I’m not joking around, I know a few people who have literally, done just that.
You have a few dollars from your training project, don’t know if it’s acceptable to use this for equipment if you don’t already have any, then, get your face around, go out to music venues, clubs, get cards printed, a website if that’s possible, and start to do live recordings, bands, choral groups, string quartets, local amateur musicians need recordings for various things, and they don’t want to do it themselves, they want something better than a phone recording.
If you do a good job, and you get known as someone who can deliver the goods, your reputation will grow, just do a bit of market research and see what ground is covered already in your area, that can be an issue as I found out, and you don’t want to step on anyone’s toes, it’s always best in these circumstances to find a niche, and collaborate with those already there as much possible, you can end up bringing each other work this way.
Hope all this helps, and don’t forget SOS is a major resource for any technical help you may need, there are lots of people here who are more than willing to help you at any time.

[OneWorld]

Arpangel has just saved me a job, I would have written exactly the same. One has to be creative about getting a start in the creative industries, and think about every possible scenario that calls upon music making, and/or video production.

"....answer the phone or take out the trash........"

And I am looking forward to reading your success story "I once took out Beyonce's Trash" goodness me, there'd be a lot of it

Actually, I am a fan of Beyonce, she is a consummate professional and superb singer. I was just using her name as an exemplar

[Laggard]

I’ve no idea if my last post went through.

I’ve tried to think of everything. No money to buy gear. No space to setup a small studio and renting space here is not an option.

I’m going to keep working at it. I thank you all for your responses.

[Arpangel]

I’ve no idea if my last post went through.

I’ve tried to think of everything. No money to buy gear. No space to setup a small studio and renting space here is not an option.

I’m going to keep working at it. I thank you all for your responses.

Please keep us posted, and best of luck.

[The Red Bladder]

The brutal reality of today's studio market is very different to the dream of the big studio with windswept and groovy musicians doing great things there. It is a home studio run by the owner who only uses it for their own music.

The only music work being done in commercial studios is film/TV scores - and even many of those are happening in a home studio - some of these home studios are multi-million dollar projects! The down-side (for you) is that the seven or eight large rooms in LA get CVs through the mail, each day and every day and from really top-qualified students from some of the best music schools and music-tech courses on Earth. People who can read a score and read a circuit diagram and know the equipment and the software intimately from college.

I’m 57 and unemployed. Spent the last thirty years doing boring shit work.

In the eyes of most, that makes you unemployable. Your age, your employment status (or lack thereof) and your possible perceived lack of career progress speaks against you.

I live in Hollywood. Land of 200 studios and 10,000 20 year olds willing to work for free just to get in the door.

Their problem is that they (well, most of them) do not have the skills required in a modern studio either.

I’ll run cable, answer the phone or take out the trash.

Not really tasks studios need.

I have not worked in a studio since my college dj days.

That was over 30 years ago - sadly, the skills of those days are no longer required in a commercial studio. Successful musicians nearly all have their own studios and the unsuccessful ones can't afford realistic studio prices. Also the studio of today is completely different - at least those that are working are. Some (like mine) may still have a large analogue desk, but once the signal is in the box, everything is virtual.

The idea of live recording might work, but today, there are many boxes one can buy that patch straight into the FoH desk that do the work of a whole mobile recording truck. That would just leave you with the classical and small jazz combos - thin pickings!

What is working is A for V post production work - but the required knowhow takes a few years to acquire. It also requires some equipment, DPA 6061, Sennheiser MKH416, Neumann U87, screens, audio and video software, projector, workstation, mic pres and of course a room and a booth and a really fast internet connection. But that lot would see you OK for ADR and VO work - whether you get any is another matter!

I am very sorry to have to be a downer on this one, but that's how things are! Everyone and their mothers-in-law seem to want to be sound engineers and I cannot imagine why - it's a boring job most of the time!

My 30 cents worth would be to let playing with audio remain a hobby and use the money for learning a skill that interests you. Despite having a medium-sized studio (1,000 sq ft live room, 60 frame desk, bla, bla, bla) I now spend most of my time creating a film company. I also bought myself a sawmill and am churning out wooden structures all over the place - much more fun than sitting in front of a computer bar-beat editing some deathless drivel!

[Laggard]

Thank you for the kind reply. It’s kind of the conclusion I’ve come to also. There’s nothing else I can think of that really interests me that would not require years of training. I’ll just live out the rest of my life doing shit work.

I knew what my dream was 40 years ago but sadly life got in the way. Let that be a lesson to all you kids out there.

[Aleks_O]

I guess you're probably not refering to mix engineer, but if you are interested in that area have you thought about advertising yourself on soundbetter.com ?

I won't divulge too much, but I interned for a guy who made nearly a million on there haha..

If you're very organised and focused you could probably make some good money on there although there's alot of competition, like everywhere of course.

[OneWorld]

I think one only needs spend a bit of time strolling around YouTube to see the endless numbers of people, generally young, but not always, turning out some fabulous music and vids to go with them. And I think to myself (What a Wonderful World LOL), it is and always was a young person's domain, they are not jaded, they have the enthusiasm, creativity, energy, positivity whatever to make great music.

I am not saying all those attributes are exclusive to the young, but as an older person, can one really say that music is an all consuming passion, as much as it was when we were younger? And one only needs listen to our contemporaries, that we have been listening to since our 20's, and being honest with oneself, they don't impress as much. Yes there may be some exceptions, but one swallow doesn't make a summer, and hey, look at Seasick Steve, he'll be rocking up in a zimmer frame before long, But I think it would be nigh impossible to get a start in a studio, or even a roadies job, you'd be an oddity, and the music industry likes oddities, but regular oddities, not the token oldie.

That said, could you connect with others in your locality and maybe get something going?

Make a thing about that difference, get a studio going between yourselves and make a speciality of the Senior Ears for those of Older Years........

The Sounds of the 60's and that's 60 years old, not sounds from the '60s LOL. There maybe those that want to do things as they used to be done? Just a thought

[Laggard]

I think one only needs spend a bit of time strolling around YouTube to see the endless numbers of people, generally young, but not always, turning out some fabulous music and vids to go with them. And I think to myself (What a Wonderful World LOL), it is and always was a young person's domain, they are not jaded, they have the enthusiasm, creativity, energy, positivity whatever to make great music.

I would argue that 90% of what they are producing is garbage.

Perhaps an unknown relative will die, leave me with 100k and I can buy some gear to record the dozens of local punk and underground artists that would kill to have free or dirt cheap recording.

[Arpangel]

I think one only needs spend a bit of time strolling around YouTube to see the endless numbers of people, generally young, but not always, turning out some fabulous music and vids to go with them.

Well, I’m not hearing it, this "fabulous music"
The young? they haven’t got the monopoly on anything that will potentially alter the course of musical history, or art in general, that’s because it’s already happened, and it’s a finite process.
The things that are interesting, have been, and are still being done by elderly men and women in anonymous rooms, quietly getting on with it, they don’t waste their time on social media.
The world according to Arpangel.

[OneWorld]

I think one only needs spend a bit of time strolling around YouTube to see the endless numbers of people, generally young, but not always, turning out some fabulous music and vids to go with them.

Well, I’m not hearing it, this "fabulous music"
The young? they haven’t got the monopoly on anything that will potentially alter the course of musical history, or art in general, that’s because it’s already happened, and it’s a finite process.
The things that are interesting, have been, and are still being done by elderly men and women in anonymous rooms, quietly getting on with it, they don’t waste their time on social media.
The world according to Arpangel.

That's why I consider myself very lucky, I remain open to all manner of music and glad of it. BTW, I don't remember writing anything about good music being exclusive to writing/performing good music? I don't have any prescriptive tendencies, I just happen to be attracted to music if it floats my boat whether it is a young whipersnapper or an old codger, however as we age we tend to become prisoners of our own generation. I think the exception to the rule there was John Peel, hence is particular niche and popularity

It is a simple fact though, a young person is more likely to turn out newer forms of music, that's not a statement of opinion but an observation of fact

[OneWorld]

I think one only needs spend a bit of time strolling around YouTube to see the endless numbers of people, generally young, but not always, turning out some fabulous music and vids to go with them. And I think to myself (What a Wonderful World LOL), it is and always was a young person's domain, they are not jaded, they have the enthusiasm, creativity, energy, positivity whatever to make great music.

I would argue that 90% of what they are producing is garbage.

Perhaps an unknown relative will die, leave me with 100k and I can buy some gear to record the dozens of local punk and underground artists that would kill to have free or dirt cheap recording.

"I would argue that 90% of what they are producing is garbage" thus it always was. You don't labour under the illusion that for example back in Bach's day, every other composer was his equal. I reckon for every Bach or Beethoven there were a 100 whom at best, were just ok'ish, they just never got that lucky break. And of course it might be garbage to you, but to them it might represent something profound. In fact I'd bet the house on the possibility that they write their music to suit themselves not anyone else.

Thankfully for me, I know there's no relative that will bequeath me any do$h, so that's one less delusion I dream about. As anyone knows, dreams are nice but life is crap, so I decided get on with it, as the Chinese say, "No matter where you end up in life, it's you that got you there, so get on with it" and I thought, that makes sense to me.

To be honest (and why shouldn't I be) When I hear a musician saying another musician's stuff is 'garbage' I feel someone is missing the point. There's lots of music that isn't my thing, but I would still say to the performer "Well done, keep at it" or words to that affect

[Arpangel]

You don’t need money to make beautiful music, you have a voice, it’s free.

[Guido3]

To be honest (and why shouldn't I be) When I hear a musician saying another musician's stuff is 'garbage' I feel someone is missing the point. There's lots of music that isn't my thing, but I would still say to the performer "Well done, keep at it" or words to that affect

Couldn’t agree with this more. There is no such thing as crap music. All music is great it’s just that some of it, I don’t fully appreciate.

[OneWorld]

To be honest (and why shouldn't I be) When I hear a musician saying another musician's stuff is 'garbage' I feel someone is missing the point. There's lots of music that isn't my thing, but I would still say to the performer "Well done, keep at it" or words to that affect

Couldn’t agree with this more. There is no such thing as crap music. All music is great it’s just that some of it, I don’t fully appreciate.

Yep, I always think "Who am I to judge?" And no one has ever told me my music is krap, maybe they're just being kind, but I'd rather be a krap musician with good friends that a great musician with no friends.

[Laggard]

So here’s my understanding: Music production, engineering, mastering, etc is all being done now by 25 year old kids on YouTube.

The old style, in the studio, people behind the board, musicians on the other side of the glass is dead.

[Eddy Deegan]

I’ll just live out the rest of my life doing shit work.

.. endless numbers of people, generally young ... make great music.

I would argue that 90% of what they are producing is garbage.

Perhaps an unknown relative will die, leave me with 100k

Laggard, with respect (and welcome to the forum!), I think you're goijg out of your way to build a rod for your own back here.

If you're determined to find the negatives then I know with absolute certainty that you'll find them.

If, on the other hand, you're open to creative approaches to the problem then you may just find something that works for you. In your position I'd be looking to buy a few carefully selected bits of gear that would enable me to sharpen my recording chops in my own environment (even if it took a while) and then look for musicians to collaborate with to further both your goals.

You're going to have to put a lot of work in though. That's fine too. Even the amateurs amongst us have done similar.

You've already made clear you're in a position whereby you need to catch up. One thing I can guarantee; your age is less important than the approach you take.

Of course you're free to assert that 90% of the production made by youth is garbage. Hypothetically though, even if that were true, it's an attitude that's not going to do you any favours.

Find the 10% that are doing something better and strive to work with them.

Bear in mind also that if you worked in a studio, you wouldn't get to choose your clientele. Thus in some way that latter criticism of the market negates the aspirations of your initial post.

I'm not sure you know what you want, to be honest.

[Laggard]

Thanks for the reply.

I think if I had 20k I could rent a small space, buy some gear and record underground punk for free as a hobby. The recording space is the real thorn in my side.

Even though I know what to do, I’m financially not in a position to do it.

[Arpangel]

Thanks for the reply.

I think if I had 20k I could rent a small space, buy some gear and record underground punk for free as a hobby. The recording space is the real thorn in my side.

Take inspiration from Joe Meek, if you know him, you’ll know what I’m talking about.
When I was in my flat in London, I recorded a number of people, in my flat, the living room was the live room, and the bedroom was the control room, and, I got paid for some of it too.
Depends where you live, as to how practical this is, but Eddy is right, you have to stay positive and be practical, I wish I were near you, I’m sure I could see straight away how you could do "something" and I continue to say, strike out on your own, and look at things from different angles.

[Mike Stranks]

A johnny-cum-lately says:

"90% of it (new music) is garbage..."

I've been involved as a semi-pro in all manner of recording, production and broadcast since 1972 (I'm 72).

I quickly learnt that when asked to make a recording or provide live-sound, my job was to provide the best service to that person/group that I could - irrespective of my personal views on the style of music being played. Of course, if they had an instrument that was out of tune, or their singing was off-key at points, then I might (tactfully) mention it, but I wasn't there to critique what they were doing.

If you're really serious about following your dream, you have a fundamental question to answer, "Am I going to accept that I won't like much of the stuff I'm asked to work with, or are my personal musical tastes more important?"

[Arpangel]

If you're really serious about following your dream, you have a fundamental question to answer, "Am I going to accept that I won't like much of the stuff I'm asked to work with, or are my personal musical tastes more important?"

There is no place for the word "garbage" in music in general, that’s my opinion, it’s all subjective, and down to personal taste, but saying that, all music is important, regarding the "big picture" whether we think it’s any good isn’t the point.
As for recording, engineering, if I’ve got my engineering hat on, no matter what type of music it is, it’s the most important thing in the world while I’m doing it, and if it’s not to my taste, then that’s even better, it’s interesting, in a recording situation, as you become introduced to that music, talk to the players, etc, you find out that all musicians have the same goal, and that’s to communicate, and there are many places where we all cross over, that we often don’t realise, so all in all, it’s always an education, a valuable one, working with people outside of your chosen field.

[Laggard]

Thanks for the reply.

I think if I had 20k I could rent a small space, buy some gear and record underground punk for free as a hobby. The recording space is the real thorn in my side.

Take inspiration from Joe Meek, if you know him, you’ll know what I’m talking about.
When I was in my flat in London, I recorded a number of people, in my flat, the living room was the live room, and the bedroom was the control room, and, I got paid for some of it too.
Depends where you live, as to how practical this is, but Eddy is right, you have to stay positive and be practical, I wish I were near you, I’m sure I could see straight away how you could do "something" and I continue to say, strike out on your own, and look at things from different angles.

Thank you. Recording in our tiny place is not an option. There’s already 1000 studios here recording rap and R&B artists. Punk has always been my first love and I know there are some good bands that would love to have their stuff recorded for free.

I’ll never make money on it but would love to be able to contribute to a scene.

[Arpangel]

Thank you. Recording in our tiny place is not an option. There’s already 1000 studios here recording rap and R&B artists. Punk has always been my first love and I know there are some good bands that would love to have their stuff recorded for free.

I’ll never make money on it but would love to be able to contribute to a scene.

HHHmmmmmm?
Live sound, live recording, of bands, but that still requires equipment of some sort. Just go to gigs, offer your services, for free, see if anyone takes you up on it, free live recordings.
I did this early on, and a few people took me up on it.

[Sam Spoons]

Yup, punk is fundamentally live music so no posh studio premises needed. You will need a mixer or interface that can record a minimum of 8 inputs, drums (kick and overhead), 2 or 3 guitars/keys, bass and two vox). You'll need a couple of DIs and mics for the guitar amps and drums*, plus a few cables and a cheap laptop (nothing fancy needed for tracking/mixing 8 live instrument/vocal mics/DIs.

Record them in their rehearsal space and mix at home on headphones and you're all set.

* Use the band's own vocal mics to keep costs down then a few used SM57s for the instruments will get the job done.

[Arpangel]

Yup, punk is fundamentally live music so no posh studio premises needed. You will need a mixer or interface that can record a minimum of 8 inputs, drums (kick and overhead), 2 or 3 guitars/keys, bass and two vox). You'll need a couple of DIs and mics for the guitar amps and drums*, plus a few cables and a cheap laptop (nothing fancy needed for tracking/mixing 8 live instrument/vocal mics/DIs.

Record them in their rehearsal space and mix at home on headphones and you're all set.

* Use the band's own vocal mics to keep costs down then a few used SM57s for the instruments will get the job done.

If you really want to offer something different, then you could record the whole band using just two mic's, straight into a portable recorder, or cheap interface and laptop, a pair of phones, and that’s it.
I’ve known great recordings done like this, with a stereo pair, it’s a very "live" feel, but it tends to suit that type of music.

[James Perrett]

Live sound, live recording, of bands, but that still requires equipment of some sort. Just go to gigs, offer your services, for free, see if anyone takes you up on it, free live recordings.
I did this early on, and a few people took me up on it.

You don't need much gear these days if you find a venue with a digital desk. Behringer X32 desks all come with a USB connection which plugs straight into a computer and allows you to individually record up to 32 channels. Allen and Heath are similar. However, if you want to capture a better sound than everyone else, make sure you add a pair of audience mics which will give you far more atmosphere than the desk channels on their own.

A laptop plus a stand-alone stereo recorder is all you need. Read the desk manual thoroughly so that you know where to connect and what you will be receiving.

Like Tony, I started off doing this in a primitive way back in the late 70s and had a few bands ask if I could come back and record them again. I also always made a habit of recording the other bands playing the gig if possible - you never know who might make progress in the music business.

[MOF]

Yup, punk is fundamentally live music so no posh studio premises needed.

I beg to differ, the Sex Pistols recorded at AIR and Wessex studios with top flight engineers and producers.

[Sam Spoons]

I didn't say you couldn't record punk in a posh studio, just that you didn't need to. And they were hardly your 'standard' punk band though were they*? The kind of bands the OP is thinking of recording are pub/bar bands who's natural habitat is the small bar or rehearsal studio/garage.

*The sex pistols could play too (apart from JR maybe) and very well giving a bit of a lie to the 'get together in your garage with a couple of mates, cant play? doesn;t matter do it anyway' ethos.