Waves go subscription only!

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Waves go subscription only!

Post by sonics »

Big news in the plugin world. Perhaps not totally unexpected, though.

There was a clue when Waves sent out emails telling buyers to redeem their reseller purchases by March 26th. It would also seem that Waves told neither customers nor resellers of their plans, since at least one was under the impression that licenses would still be for sale direct from Waves.

The fact they did not give customers a limited time to upgrade or purchase perpetual licenses seems like a huge mistake to me, both for their finances and customer base.
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by MaestroMikeT »

This was expected, it was just a matter of time - in reality the only surprise in the industry was the turn Steinberg took, wich was really fine by me. There’s something about companies hooking you up perpetually, forcing 1) internet connections active for software to work, when some machines would run much more smoothly with net adaptors disabled, DAW only, 2) a never-ending upgrade path, 3) inability to recall old projects once you terminate subscription, forcing committing instead of using your own plugins, even if outdated, 4) a sense of intrusion, perhaps fueled by too much sci-fi reading, so disregard at will :)
I have some Waves plug-ins, and some of them I really really like - RBass and MaxxBass don’t seem to have an actual native replacement with other vendors, so I’ll hang on to them until they’re not compatible anymore (I believe existing plugins you own remain yours, it’s just the new buy and upgrade path that is exclusively subscription). Time to do some math and figure if it makes financial sense to subscribe…
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by Bob Bickerton »

Hmmm.... some of us gave up on Waves years ago because you'd have to buy their plug-ins and then effectively pay a subscription through their ongoing WUP plans.

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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by James Perrett »

Bob Bickerton wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:22 am Hmmm.... some of us gave up on Waves years ago because you'd have to buy their plug-ins and then effectively pay a subscription through their ongoing WUP plans.

I was just thinking that they were already subscription only. I stopped using Waves when they refused to cover the plug-ins that I had bought under WUP. Other manufacturers were catching up fast so I didn't really lose much.
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by Drew Stephenson »

I have two or three that I use on pretty much every project. I'll just keep using them until they stop working then find an alternative. Shame, but having never paid full price for any of them I'm not too invested.
I think the subscription model is a good option, but I think in making it their only option they're making an early play for stage 3 of what Cory Doctorow calls the 'enshittification' process.
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by The Elf »

Almost Waves-free here, but for a couple of gems for which I've yet to find suitable replacements. Waves have been resting contentedly on their laurels for too long.
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by Matt Houghton »

The Elf wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:57 am Almost Waves-free here, but for a couple of gems for which I've yet to find suitable replacements. Waves have been resting contentedly on their laurels for too long.

Out of curiosity... which ones?
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by The Elf »

Matt Houghton wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:54 pm
The Elf wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:57 am Almost Waves-free here, but for a couple of gems for which I've yet to find suitable replacements. Waves have been resting contentedly on their laurels for too long.

Out of curiosity... which ones?

Doubler, C6 and GTR's 'Thunder' bass amp. I've not found anything to replace those to my satisfaction yet.
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by resistorman »

Waves screwed me over with my very first purchase from them more than 20 years ago. I bought their Renaissance plugins pack (I believe it was V2) when I decided to start mixing on my PC, and it was expensive. The plugs worked haphazardly and crashed all the time. When I spoke to the company, it seems the problem had been fixed in the next version of the software which I would have to buy at half the cost of the original. Since I had bought it just weeks before, you'd think they'd give me a break, but nope. Furious, I downloaded cracks and tossed away the copy protection dongle, which turned out to be why their software crashed, poorly implemented DRM.

I've bought a few of their plugins over the years when they were on drastic sale, I always pay for software other than that time. But the way they've run their business has always felt arrogant, bordering on sleazy, so I've largely ignored them. And we are certainly not starved for choice when it comes to brilliant software at reasonable prices from customer friendly companies :D
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by Matt Houghton »

The Elf wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:20 pm
Matt Houghton wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:54 pm
The Elf wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:57 am Almost Waves-free here, but for a couple of gems for which I've yet to find suitable replacements. Waves have been resting contentedly on their laurels for too long.

Out of curiosity... which ones?

Doubler, C6 and GTR's 'Thunder' bass amp. I've not found anything to replace those to my satisfaction yet.

Interesting. I've not used Thunder. But what's so special about Doubler and C6? I mean, they work well enough but there are loads of alternatives. (Though I seem to recall you're not a fan of iLok, so maybe that's it?!)
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by The Elf »

To my chagrin I've had to make tactical compromises with iLok :madas: (though I still hate it with every cell of my being), so that wouldn't be a show-stopper. But I just haven't found alternatives that do what these plug-ins do, either as effectively (especially Doubler/Thunder), or as easily (especially C6).
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by Stuart79 »

Can anyone suggest a good alternative to Vocal Rider and Bass Rider? (Yes, I could manually automate, but it's not always convenient.)

Similar to others, I have Waves licenses for a lot of products that I've accumulated over 15 years or so, but can't remember the last time I bought one of their newer products. The update plan seemed somewhat redundant as the products (especially older ones) were rarely updated. Shame really, but between FabFilter, Acustica, Softube, a few other choice bits and some of the stock basics in Cubase I rarely feel the need to rely on Waves anymore.
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by Matt Houghton »

Stuart79 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:23 pm Can anyone suggest a good alternative to Vocal Rider and Bass Rider? (Yes, I could manually automate, but it's not always convenient.)

Some options to check out:

TB Pro GainRider
Hornet Autogain
Melda MAutoVolume

And not quite the same thing but can be useful in a similar sort of way: Wavesfactory Trackspacer
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by Stuart79 »

Matt Houghton wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:41 pm Some options to check out:

TB Pro GainRider
Hornet Autogain
Melda MAutoVolume

And not quite the same thing but can be useful in a similar sort of way: Wavesfactory Trackspacer


Thanks for these. I'll have a look.
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by dbfs »

I genuinely think they are finished now and I am glad to see them go to be honest.

No right minded person is going to continue down their path. The number of people that I know that abandoned Adobe over the subscription thing is staggering.

We get Adobe free at work and and we cannot give it away as people can't be bothered. They have moved on to other things like the Affinity range and Blackmagic DaVinci Resolve.

Poor waves. They really have done it to themselves this time. Lovely.
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by ITHertz »

Hi All,

I never really entered the Waves ecosystem and only have about 10 of their plug-ins of which, only a few don't have clear alternatives (e.g. RVox, C6).

Don't think I'll be subscribing to a huge bundle of plug-ins for the couple that I actually use. And as I'm concerned with backwards compatibility I've decided to remove all the Waves plug-ins I have so that I don't get caught later on.

Anyway, that's my 2c!

Cheers!
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by dbfs »

Removing them is a really good idea. In Reaper you can set it to not show waves plugins in the preferences. That way they are still there if you need to show them again temporarily for a legacy project but with a simple setting you can hide them on new projects to avoid using them in the future.
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by jaminem »

Inevitable really. I got off the Waves train mostly a long time ago. Except Maxx Bass, I just didn’t use them.
I get the subscription thing as a business model for them but I just don’t want or need hundreds of plugins. Too much choice slows me down. Always find it amusing when YouTubers are demoing technique seem to scroll through hundreds of the things yet always end up picking the same ones. That tells you all you need to know really.

I am looking at Universal Audio with interest tho, as I’m hugely invested in their platform- have been since the original ‘Mackie’ cards. They seem to be struggling- offering Spark which apparently no one bought, and then having to release perpetual native licensing both singly and in bundles seemingly to try and get some revenue in to port the rest of thier plugins over to native…

I may have just made all that up…but it’s odd that we got the first native plugins over a year ago and nothing since…

It must be a huge cost for them to port and then keep updating for compatibility - especially with such a large library
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by Kwackman »

Is there a reason this is posted in the "Windows Music" forum rather than "Mixing, Mastering & Post Production"?
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by Wonks »

Kwackman wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:32 am Is there a reason this is posted in the "Windows Music" forum rather than "Mixing, Mastering & Post Production"?

Non-platform specific threads get posted in the platform specific forums all the time. Likewise, platform specific threads often get posted in the general forum threads.

But somehow life goes on.
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by IAA »

But somehow life goes on.

:clap::D

Well I did use Roland Cloud for a while but only really a couple of plugins so defeated the point. I stopped a while ago. I guess for commercial studios it makes more sense.
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by The Elf »

We have a whole generation who have become de-sensitised to subscriptions.

I have family who think it perfectly normal to be paying over 100 quid monthly on a collection of TV subscriptions, yet will happily tell me how they've not watched anything on <insert entertainment service provider here> for months.

It's a great scam, and it seems that most of the world has fallen for it.
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by Sam Inglis »

Stuart79 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:23 pm Can anyone suggest a good alternative to Vocal Rider and Bass Rider? (Yes, I could manually automate, but it's not always convenient.)

Quiet Art's Wave Rider was the original implementation of this idea IIRC and is still around.
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

Kwackman wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:32 am Is there a reason this is posted in the "Windows Music" forum rather than "Mixing, Mastering & Post Production"?

No idea why the OP posted it in Windows Music when it's a cross platform product, but the reason it has remained there was because none of the moderators noticed.... sorry! I shall move it forthwith.
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by Stuart79 »

Sam Inglis wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:16 am
Stuart79 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:23 pm Can anyone suggest a good alternative to Vocal Rider and Bass Rider? (Yes, I could manually automate, but it's not always convenient.)

Quiet Art's Wave Rider was the original implementation of this idea IIRC and is still around.

Ahhh... Nice one. Thankyou. It certainly has a familiar look about it!
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by Kwackman »

Hugh Robjohns wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:03 am I shall move it forthwith.

Thanks. :thumbup:
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by dbfs »

For anyone wanting to go cold turkey and replace their waves bundles, there is always IK Multimedia total studio bundle sale ending today for 199 euro or their tracks max bundle for 115 euro.

https://www.thomann.de/ie/ik_multimedia ... .5_max.htm

I quite like some of these and the white 2a seems to have some love around here. I also use them alongside or in place of several UAD plugins so to get the lot for this money seems like a really nice deal.

I'm just going to make the switch today and be done.
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by EddyHame »

dbfs wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:58 pm I'm just going to make the switch today and be done.

Great shout! I mopped up a lot of the IK stuff in their 25th Anniversary stuff a little while back, and they're great.

I haven't bought a Waves plug for years due to many of the reasons already in this thread. I've found replacements for everything, although I do still love RBass.

I like H-Delay too, but Replika XT / Echoboy more than capable there, and no doubt something in Total Max will do there too!
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by muzines »

Of all the plugins in the entire Waves catalog, by far the one that I've seen mentioned the most as something people will miss is RBass, of all things.

Seems there's a market opportunity there for any quick-to-market plugin developers... :thumbup:
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Re: Waves go subscription only!

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Anyone got a strong recommendation for a good de-esser? I like Waves Sibilance and I've never got on with the JS one in Reaper for some reason.
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