Monitors on car amplifier

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Monitors on car amplifier

Post by da23real »

Hello
I know studio speakers are usually not havin the good impedence to be powered by car amplifiers. I actually got a Alpine MRP-F240 is there studio monitors I can use with it ?
Thanks
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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by Mike Stranks »

See page 15 of the User Manual...

You can use any passive speaker rated at 4-ohms impedance.

The amplifier is not that powerful so don't buy speakers that are relatively inefficient if you want plenty of volume.

These would fit the bill from a technical perspective:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_monitor_1c.htm

I've no idea what they'd sound like, but then I have no idea how accurate is the amp you want to use. :)
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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by ef37a »

https://www.bax-shop.co.uk/home-audio-s ... nformation

They look suspiciously similar to the Behringers! Maybe a better name?
That amplifier is said to deliver 100 watts in bridge mode and it is a 4 channel amp, if so the Mackies would be adequately loud I suggest. However, in the world of car audio power ratings are often inflated so the amp might not in fact deliver sufficient power in practice or be rather distorted trying. The specified distortion is "0.08%" (at 40W 4R) not a particularly impressive figure by today's standards (or indeed 30 years ago!) but is probably ok. In these days of almost universal ACTIVE monitors amplifier performance is now forgotten.

But, using a car PA poses the problem of how to power it? You will need 12 V DC at several amps and a power supply that can do that QUIETLY will not be cheap.
You can find second hand hi fi amps and receivers of 50-80W into EIGHT Ohms rating quite cheaply and even some new models.
Why do you want to go down this 'passive speaker, 12V amplifier' route?

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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by Wonks »

ef37a wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:57 amhttps://www.bax-shop.co.uk/home-audio-s ... nformation

They look suspiciously similar to the Behringers! Maybe a better name?

Other way round, Dave. The Behringers are a look-alike rip-off of the JBL Control 1s. The JBL Control 1s have been around for a long time.

http://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/jbl-c ... itors/1527

http://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/all-u ... trol/12919

Reasonable speakers for non-critical music playback, yes. But accurate monitors, no?
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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by ef37a »

Wonks wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:20 am
ef37a wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:57 amhttps://www.bax-shop.co.uk/home-audio-s ... nformation

They look suspiciously similar to the Behringers! Maybe a better name?

Other way round, Dave. The Behringers are a look-alike rip-off of the JBL Control 1s. The JBL Control 1s have been around for a long time.

http://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/jbl-c ... itors/1527

http://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/all-u ... trol/12919

Reasonable speakers for non-critical music playback, yes. But accurate monitors, no?

Wot I meant Wonks! (should have thought it obvious?) JBL are the originals.

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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by Wonks »

There really aren't any good cheap passive monitors around. Most in the affordable range (especially compared to the Alpine amp value) are Avantone style 'grot boxes' or similar units to the JBL Control 1s.

The only other ones I can think of not in the thousands are the Studiospares NS10 alikes. The Mk1s were very non-Yamaha sounding and not highly regarded but the Mk III are quite different (a non-ported sealed-enclosure for a start), but I can't find a lot about how they sound.

https://www.studiospares.com/studio-gea ... 248150.htm

Even so, if they like the NS10s, they won't be the most accurate studio monitors around.

So if you insist on using the Alpine amp (which isn't a great choice and has the power supply issues already mentioned) you'd be better looking for a
good used pair of hi-fi speakers. Given that the power cable recommended for the Alpine amp is 10 AWG, or 6mm2, I think you'd need a 12v PSU with more than just a few amps capacity. Allowing for 200W total output and 90% efficiency, you'd need nearer 20A to allow it to run at maximum with a touch of headroom still available.

But active monitors are where it's all at for the home studio market, and any review of the monitors won't be subject to the vagaries of the amp used with it. Decent active monitors can be found for very reasonable prices.
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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by The Elf »

Just abandon this idea and get a pair of powered monitors. Your life will be easier for it.
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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by ef37a »

The Elf wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:52 am Just abandon this idea and get a pair of powered monitors. Your life will be easier for it.

Totally agree Elf but I would still like to hear the OP's reasoning!

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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by Mike Stranks »

I didn't check out the Behringer specs, but from personal experience I know that the Control 1s - and all the Controls I've used - are inefficient and thus power-hungry.

The Control range are respectable speakers, but definitely not 'monitors' in the sense that the word is understood in this forum...
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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by BWC »

ef37a wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:59 am
The Elf wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:52 am Just abandon this idea and get a pair of powered monitors. Your life will be easier for it.

Totally agree Elf but I would still like to hear the OP's reasoning!

Dave.

Same here! The question I've had from the start: Why? ...also, where?
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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by ef37a »

BWC wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:15 am
ef37a wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:59 am
The Elf wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:52 am Just abandon this idea and get a pair of powered monitors. Your life will be easier for it.

Totally agree Elf but I would still like to hear the OP's reasoning!

Dave.

Same here! The question I've had from the start: Why? ...also, where?

Heh! l did build a battery powered PA for our rifle range. Had to be done dirt cheap so, two power IC amps in bridge mode delivering about 20W which drove a massive OPT out of a defunct 300W 100V line transistor amp. The speakers were 'explosion proof' horns from a closed down tannery. About all the club had to buy was 100mtrs of mic cable. Ran from a 12 car battery with a polarity interlock because it was operated by peeps with no electronics knowledge.

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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by Arpangel »

Mike Stranks wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 8:57 am
These would fit the bill from a technical perspective:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_monitor_1c.htm

I've no idea what they'd sound like, but then I have no idea how accurate is the amp you want to use. :)

I do, they sound b****y good, and they go loud.
We used these with an Arcam amplifier, and we were all surprised at how big and "clear" they sounded, no hesitation in recommending these.
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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by da23real »

Thanks for the answers, sorry I didn't come back on the post.
I use car amplifier as using 12v energy from solar panels. Why buying a bigger inverter to power amplifier ? Moreover I am electrosensitiv and any alternative electricity is never good for me !
I really dislike on a forum when you ask a precise thing and people answer about "do somethin else" try to consider sometime people have a good reason to ask somethin specific !
But if I set to 4ohms on search engine of Thoman it is only showing the behringer ones of 1st advice. There's nothin else ?
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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by BWC »

da23real wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:47 pm I really dislike on a forum when you ask a precise thing and people answer about "do somethin else" try to consider sometime people have a good reason to ask somethin specific !

It might help to explain that reason upfront, especially when asking an unusual question for an unusual reason. :)
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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by ef37a »

BWC wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:59 pm
da23real wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:47 pm I really dislike on a forum when you ask a precise thing and people answer about "do somethin else" try to consider sometime people have a good reason to ask somethin specific !

It might help to explain that reason upfront, especially when asking an unusual question for an unusual reason. :)

Right on! And I really dislike it when, after giving a response and asking for more detailed answers one is totally ignored!

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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by Wonks »

You don't have to look at just 4 ohm speakers. Anything above 4 ohm will be fine, you'll just get a little less power from the amplifier. Maybe 60W per bridged channel into a more typical 8 ohm speaker. Which should be fine for nearfield studio monitors.

What is your budget? As has already been said, new good passive studio monitors are scarce and generally expensive so you are probably better off looking for a used pair if you haven't got £1000s to spend.

And are you looking for really accurate monitoring and aiming towards releasing tracks, or something that sounds good when making a few tunes for pleasure? They don't necessarily have to be different things, but the former option will rule some speakers out.

I don't know where you are or what you've got available in your local used audio market. Looking on eBay UK there are a reasonable range of monitors available, some of which I'd avoid and some of which I'd consider.

Maybe you could look around and link to some passive monitors that are in your price range and look interesting to you, then we can comment.

The other thing that we'll go on about if you want accuracy, is acoustic treatment for your listening/creative environment. But we'll leave that for now.
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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by da23real »

Well I don't need perfect quality but just reasonnable to not have my tracks sounds totally different on different speakers.
Price range second hand under 200eur.
It's not a drama if I loose a bit of power. I got a big subwoofer and if I want big power for external I can switch to car speakers.
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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by ef37a »

da23real wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:27 pm Well I don't need perfect quality but just reasonnable to not have my tracks sounds totally different on different speakers.
Price range second hand under 200eur.
It's not a drama if I loose a bit of power. I got a big subwoofer and if I want big power for external I can switch to car speakers.

Well fine but we still don't know why you want to use car amplifiers for this nor how you are going to get clean 12 volts at several amps?

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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by Wonks »

ef37a wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:33 pm
da23real wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:27 pm Well I don't need perfect quality but just reasonnable to not have my tracks sounds totally different on different speakers.
Price range second hand under 200eur.
It's not a drama if I loose a bit of power. I got a big subwoofer and if I want big power for external I can switch to car speakers.

Well fine but we still don't know why you want to use car amplifiers for this nor how you are going to get clean 12 volts at several amps?

Dave.

You would know if you'd read the OPs posts properly! :headbang:

The OP is electro-sensitive so can't get near mains-powered equipment without being affected.

And as a result of that the OP has a big solar panel system with storage batteries that power his household and other electrical items, hence the 12v DC equipment need.
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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by ef37a »

Wonks wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:39 pm
ef37a wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:33 pm
da23real wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:27 pm Well I don't need perfect quality but just reasonnable to not have my tracks sounds totally different on different speakers.
Price range second hand under 200eur.
It's not a drama if I loose a bit of power. I got a big subwoofer and if I want big power for external I can switch to car speakers.

Well fine but we still don't know why you want to use car amplifiers for this nor how you are going to get clean 12 volts at several amps?

Dave.

You would know if you'd read the OPs posts properly! :headbang:

The OP is electro-sensitive so can't get near mains-powered equipment without being affected.

And as a result of that the OP has a big solar panel system with storage batteries that power his household and other electrical items, hence the 12v DC equipment need.

DOH! OK, Never heard of "electro-sensitivity" but will have a Googe.
I am however a bit suspicious? I mean, is it just 50Hz he cannot cope with? but then once 12V is turned to high power music it is AC.

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Re: Monitors on car amplifier

Post by da23real »

I am however a bit suspicious

I got open bets for suspicious people. No one never wanted to play !!
There is places in lost mountains with bad networks in night (as radio frequencies enters body mostly by the eyes) I can say over 500m if a smartphone is on or off !!!!
Actually to use the computer I got filter glasses, a grid between me and computer (being over 1m from me) being powered in 12v (laptop) and a 10m long usb cable to connect smartphone outside the truck (wich is around 80% protected)
For solar panels I can't use regulators like pwm and mppt if I'm in the truck. I switch to direct connection and have to be carefull on voltage (I've never been able to find the old regulators with pwm)
But then for my whole analog studio (jomox, elektron, novation, etc...) it is impossible to turn everything in 12v so I can't play more than 2hours, and just this litlle time result in lots of heart trouble, headhache, scatches to the eyes, etc...
Honestly I don't understand people who have passion in electronics and are not a bit carefull ! A few details would avoid me serious damged like wearing anti blue light glasses (they filter most RF being dangerous) doing bigger windows in my truck and big lights and mostly turn off moile data of smartphone (it was bugging in the truck and emetting all the time at maximum power (24v/M insane). Also havin batteries and regulators outsideof the truck
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