Digital Cassettes

Discuss the hardware/software tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Digital Cassettes

Post by Mike Stranks »

Anyone else picked-up on the story that there's a new development in the world of the tape-cassette?

Apparently, because of the revival in interest and some in the biz singing their praises - resulting in a 'trend' - some of the major players are investigating/trialling a system whereby the tape would be replaced by solid-state storage. You could still use your old and venerated cassette recorder/player, as the digital cassette would have a sensor that presses against the record head when record/play is pressed and the transfer would be magnetic - as for tape...

Seems like a lot of unnecessary fuss to me, but that's what 'trends' do, I guess...
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by MarkOne »

I seem to remember when iPods and Zunes were hanging off everyone's belt, there were a number of companies selling cassette adapters so you could play your iPod in the car stereo (Aux in being a rarity back then)

Same thing an inductive coupler that sat against the tape head, some preamp and EQ to make the response reasonably flat, and then a 3.5mm jack lead for the iPod.

I have distant memories of having one I picked up at Maplin back then.

I have no fond memories of it sounding any good!
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

Easy to do, technically, but it seems to be missing the point of the format's popularity.

Presumably, solid state memory plus battery plus D-A plus inductive coupling is cheaper and easier to produce than making rusty sellotape and winding it into plastic shells.
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by FrankF »

"Rusty sellotape", nice one, squire! :clap:

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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

:lol::think:
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by Wonks »

Is this a product of today's date?
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by Wonks »

Here's one from JHS pedals on a battery simulator pedal. ;)

https://youtu.be/OGtaO9_oQlI
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Wonks wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 12:23 pm Is this a product of today's date?

This was, and remains, my immediate suspicion. :)
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by The Elf »

:lol::thumbup:
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by rha »

Had me going. People are actually using cassette though! Beyond messing about with something found in the back of a cupboard why would anyone do that?!
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by Tim Gillett »

A fellow I know I know who lectures in audio said he once asked his youngish class how many had purchased cassettes from bands at the live gigs they'd been to.. Many hands shot up. Then he asked how many had a means of playing them. No hands went up.

As for digital audio cassettes that started professionally around 1970 (Umatic PCM), then for consumers in the 80's (DAT), then another type recording digitally to basically the old Compact Cassette invented 1964) in I think the 90's.

The old induction into the tape player idea would work but you still need a half functioning cassette player and most of them have gone to landfill. Besides even if you did still have an old cassette player or deck what would be the point? Why not play memory cards or sticks with modern gear specifically designed to play them? Sounds a bit like a solution looking for a problem.

But there can be a problem with the extreme miniaturisation of flash memory cards: easily lost, difficult to handle and plug in especially if your hands and fingers arent nimble, or nimble any more, and difficult for blind people, most of whom are elderly anyway. There's a special audio book format for the blind and print handicapped which encases the small card in a larger plastic card with a more robust connector for use in a special robust audio player. The card can withstand a run in the washing machine without damage. Now that seems like a practical idea.
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by ManFromGlass »

I’m holding out for digital LPs!
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by Mike Stranks »

See you same day, same place next year!

:lol:

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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

Tim Gillett wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:35 pmAs for digital audio cassettes that started professionally around 1970 (Umatic PCM), then for consumers in the 80's (DAT)...

While there were some experimental R&D digital recorders around in 1970, there was nothing available commercially and they all used open-reel video or data tape platforms.

The first professional Sony PCM adapter using a Umatic video recorder was the PCM1600 in 1977/8, with the consumer F1 PCM adapter recording to Betamax video released almost concurrently.

AFAIK the first commercial digital recorder came from Denon in 1972, but it used a 2-inch open-reel Quadruplex video recorder. The Soundstream system came along in 1976 using a 1-inch open-reel data recorder. Decca introduced their own in-house system around the same time using a 3/4-inch open-reel IVC video recorder.

R-Dat, as it was called originally, was introduced by Sony in 1987.

When the specs for consumer digital formats were being thrashed out in 1984/5 there were two concepts: one using stationary heads like a conventional analogue tape machine, and one using rotary heads like a video machine. These two concepts were called S-DAT and R-DAT, respectively.

Sony won for the consumer market with R-DAT, later reduced just to DAT (digital audio tape). The S-DAT concept was adopted in Mitsubishi's Pro-Digi stereo and multitrack recorders, and in Sony's DASH format machines (later adopted by Studer too).

...then another type recording digitally to basically the old Compact Cassette invented 1964) in I think the 90's.

The S-DAT idea also briefly emerged in the form of Philip's DCC (digital compact cassette) in 1992, but it was dead and buried just four years later, partly because it never lived up to its promise, but also because Sony's Minidisc format was better and more convenient.
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by Tim Gillett »

Hugh Robjohns wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:16 pm
Tim Gillett wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:35 pmAs for digital audio cassettes that started professionally around 1970 (Umatic PCM), then for consumers in the 80's (DAT)...

While there were some experimental R&D digital recorders around in 1970, there was nothing available commercially and they all used open-reel video or data tape platforms.

The first professional Sony PCM adapter using a Umatic video recorder was the PCM1600 in 1977/8, with the consumer F1 PCM adapter recording to Betamax video released almost concurrently.

Thanks for the correction! My aim of course wasnt to give people a blow by blow description of all formats but to say "digital audio cassettes" have been around for many years.
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by The Elf »

rha wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:18 pm Had me going. People are actually using cassette though! Beyond messing about with something found in the back of a cupboard why would anyone do that?!

Don't you know?! Tape has 'mojo'! :lol::lol::lol::headbang:
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by shufflebeat »

FrankF wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 12:17 pm "Rusty sellotape", nice one, squire! :clap:

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Now that’s irony.
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by MOF »

But there can be a problem with the extreme miniaturisation of flash memory cards: easily lost, difficult to handle and plug in especially if your hands and fingers arent nimble, or nimble any more

I did some boom operating on a 16mm film shoot years ago, at the end of the day there was a tall stack of film cans with a small DAT cassette on top ready to go back to base.
If that cassette had somehow got lost it occurred to me that there would be a lot of ADR required.
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by ef37a »

Hugh, I still own a Philips DCC and a few cassettes for it, some still s'wrapped.

You say "it never lived up to its promise" In what way? My machine made stunnily good copies of CDs but its main use was as a 'dump' for a mix from our A3440.
It also had the advantage that it could play audio cassettes but sans Dolby because at that time Philips were a bit p'eed off with them. Philips developed the Dynamic Noise Filter in competition. Playback only but by all accounts it worked pretty well?

Must dig the machine out and give it a do!

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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by Mike Stranks »

See, that's the secret of a good April Fool, says he immodestly. Say something that could just be true, polish it a little and then see who gets 'hooked'.

The problem is, of course, planting one here is risky, as 'trends' do cause some bizarre things and nearly every day of the year someone posts something here that could be taken at its face value or could be a leg-pull...

:lol:

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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by Wonks »

shufflebeat wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:11 pm
FrankF wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 12:17 pm "Rusty sellotape", nice one, squire! :clap:

Ever considered a career in marketing?

Now that’s irony.

No, that’s irony oxide.
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

Tim Gillett wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:42 pmThanks for the correction! My aim of course wasnt to give people a blow by blow description of all formats but to say "digital audio cassettes" have been around for many years.

Sure. No problem. Just wanted to highlight that it was the end of the 70s, not the beginning. ;)
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

Mike Stranks wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 4:26 pm See, that's the secret of a good April Fool, says he immodestly. Say something that could just be true, polish it a little and then see who gets 'hooked'.

Absolutely! It was entirely believable, perfectly do-able, and probably for a competitive price, too. Someone will surely do it! :lol: Well done!

I remember one of PW's April Fools many years ago for a lightweight PA speaker with an inflatable cabinet. His design employed a one-way valve in the reflex port to pump itself up on bass notes!

....and then we received a genuine press release for an actual inflatable PA speaker! :o:lol:
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Re: Digital Cassettes

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Hugh Robjohns wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 4:55 pm I remember one of PW's April Fools many years ago for a lightweight PA speaker with an inflatable cabinet. His design employed a one-way valve in the reflex port to pump itself up on bass notes!

....and then we received a genuine press release for an actual inflatable PA speaker! :o:lol:

I have often wondered, generally whilst lugging the thing home from the pub, whether a double bass formed of a central spine and then an inflatable body would actually have any acoustic merit.
I generally manage to talk myself out of it by the following week...
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