String quartet - 3 condensers, some 57s\58s

[Carmelious]

Hi all.

What would be ideal with the above setup? I was thinking:

1.ortf with two se08s, dynamics as close mikes, nt1 for center at a distance
or:
2. two se08s for vlns, sm57s for cello and vla, two sm58s for room stereo, nt1 for center.

players will be arranged as:

vln2 cello
Vln1 vla

any idea would be welcome!

[resistorman]

Are you multitracking? If so, mixing later could work well with close mics because you could compensate for phasing etc. If recording to stereo in a good sounding room, I'd keep it simple and do without the close mics.

[Random Guitarist]

M/S config would be my suggestion, so long as the sound in the room is pleasant.

[Bob Bickerton]

Somewhat dependent on genre, room and proficiency of the players, (that is their ability to balance themselves), but I would keep it simple and go for ORTF pair.

Note: can't see options to M/S with the mics on offer.

Bob

[Mike Stranks]

Somewhat dependent on genre, room and proficiency of the players, (that is their ability to balance themselves), but I would keep it simple and go for ORTF pair.

[Arpangel]

SE8’s, ORTF pair, shouldn’t need anything else, just experiment with positioning.

[Carmelious]

Edit:
I have 8 channels multitrack interface, the room is large and nice.

[Random Guitarist]

Somewhat dependent on genre, room and proficiency of the players, (that is their ability to balance themselves), but I would keep it simple and go for ORTF pair.

Note: can't see options to M/S with the mics on offer.

Bob

I think you can, point the se8s sideways opposing so the pair of cardioids is equivalent to a figure 8, NT faces front. Gain match the se8s.

But I may be wrong

[Wonks]

Somewhat dependent on genre, room and proficiency of the players, (that is their ability to balance themselves), but I would keep it simple and go for ORTF pair.

Note: can't see options to M/S with the mics on offer.

Bob

I think you can, point the se8s sideways opposing so the pair of cardioids is equivalent to a figure 8, NT faces front. Gain match the se8s.

But I may be wrong

You need a tight null in the figure 8 for M/S to work properly. A cardioid still has significant pickup at 90° off-access (the sE8 is only about 7dB down at 90° at 1kHz). You’ll certainly get an image, but it won’t be a good M/S one as there will be too much of the mids in the image.

[Hugh Robjohns]

...I would keep it simple and go for ORTF pair.

Me too! No need for close mics, no need for space mics. ORTF and spend some time moving the array closer or farther to get the ideal perspective balance. The Stereo acceptance angle with an ORTF pair is about 90 degrees so, if you want the quartet to not-quote fill the stereo image, that angle will inform you of the starting position for the mic stand. Move it closer or farther to control the balance of direct/reverb, and then you can tweak the angles of the mics slightly if necessary to adjust the stereo width if necessary.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I think you can, point the se8s sideways opposing so the pair of cardioids is equivalent to a figure 8, NT faces front. Gain match the se8s.

Don't forget to flip the polarity of the SE8 facing right...

But yes, you're right, you could create an MS array in that way... but it's quite difficult to mount the mics and involves a lot of iron-mongery (remember all three capsules have to be aligned in the vertical plane).

It's a lot of faff for little real benefit compared to a simple ORTF (NOS, DIN etc), or XY cardioids or Gerzon array...

[Hugh Robjohns]

You need a tight null in the figure 8 for M/S to work properly. A cardioid still has significant pickup at 90° off-access...

It does... but you've forgotten that get's cancelled out by the same Mid pickup of the other co-incidentally mounted cardioid facing the other way and combined with opposite polarity.

Remember a Cardioid mic polar pattern is achieved through the combination of both velocity (Fig-8) and pressure (omni) elements. By combining the outputs of two coincidentally mounted cardioid capsules in opposite polarities the omni elements cancel completely, and the fig-8 elements (which are facing in opposite directions) add to produce a bigger fig-8 facing left.

As a result, there will be a deep null and there won't be any mid pickup... but that does depend on mounting the capsules so they are accurately aligned.