DAKING + 388 Buzz?

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Moderator: Moderators

DAKING + 388 Buzz?

Post by cubovich@gmail.com »

Hi there - I recently purchased a Daking IV channel pre for a session. Everything looked in working order. When I got home and hooked it up to my Tascam 388 I got a buzz. The signal path is going mic -> mic in Daking -> line out Daking (only output) -> line in 388 (doing this to bypass the 388 pre) .
The moment I go line in I get a big buzz. You can take put the cable in any line in 388, and get a buzz. You can put the cable any line out on Daking and get a buzz.

Here’s all the catches -
* does it no matter the cable
* doesn’t buzz when I put it through my interface
* my other pre’s don’t buzz when I go line in 388
* doesn’t buzz when I got mic in 388 (but this I don’t like doing because it’s adding two pre’s - the 388 and the Daking together)

Also I should say I noticed one of the pins was loose on the 5 pin power, then it fell off. But it still works with one less pin. Also still no buzz through the interface - I have a focusrite clarett 8 interface that has trim pots you can’t bypass - so maybe it’s the same concept as going mic in 388

Does anyone know? I am confused!
cubovich@gmail.com
New here
Posts: 5 Joined: Sat May 27, 2023 11:46 am

Re: DAKING + 388 Buzz?

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

Having a pin "fall out" of the power supply connector is never a good thing!

By the sound of the symptoms, I'd be considering two possibilities, and the first is that your Daking output cable is missing a cold-side connection from its output transformer — the Tascam isn't properly connected to the Daking (see below).

The other option is that the preamp is lacking a proper ground — quite possibly because of the missing connector contact. The 388 is, I believe, class-II (double-insulated) so also lacks a ground and expects one from connected sources.

I'd get the PSU plug replaced/fixed as a first step... although if its PSU is also a double-insulated type you'll still be lacking a ground from the mains.

However, that first possibility — the output cable wiring — might very well be the issue given that it doesn't buzz if you connect via the Tascam (balanced) mic input.

The Daking output is transformer coupled and the Tascam line input is unbalanced. So the connecting cable wiring is critical. You MUST use a TS plug at the Tascam end.

If it's an XLR output connector on the Daking it needs to be wired with pin-3 linked to pin-1 (screen), and pin-2 to signal. If you're using an XLR-TRS cable the ring has no connection, and thus the cold side of the transformer isn't connected to anything. Hence nasty buzzes as the cable acts as a TV aerial.

If it's a TRS output, then you can use a standard mono TS-TS instrument cable which will ground the cold side of the output transformer in the Daking. DO NOT use TRS-TRS cable!
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 38670 Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual... 

Re: DAKING + 388 Buzz?

Post by Wonks »

I believe its a six pin connector, so those six pins will have been selected for a reason (otherwise it would be a five-pin connector).

You should be able to take the cover off the connector and see how many wires there are in the cable. If there's a spare wire in there floating around and not connected to the missing pin, then that will be the one cause of your problem. It may not be the only cause, but getting that fixed should be your first priority.

Check the missing pin hasn't broken off inside the female part of the connector in the preamp. There's no point fitting a new connector (a six-pin DIN) without removing the broken pin as the new one either won't fit, or you'll break the same pin off trying to push it in. Get a DIN connector with a metal, rather than a plastic casing.

If you do the repair yourself, take pictures and notes so the wires go back on the correct pins.

If all else fails, you can buy replacement power supplies.

https://www.zenproaudio.com/daking-power-supply

The Daking web site itself seems to be mainly inaccessible past the intro page with SEC_ERROR_REVOKED_CERTIFICATE errors. Either they've got big web hosting issues, or they or their distribution company www.transaudiogroup.com has problems.
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 16730 Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am Location: Reading, UK
Reliably fallible.

Re: DAKING + 388 Buzz?

Post by cubovich@gmail.com »

Hugh Robjohns wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 12:51 pm Having a pin "fall out" of the power supply connector is never a good thing!

By the sound of the symptoms, I'd be considering two possibilities, and the first is that your Daking output cable is missing a cold-side connection from its output transformer — the Tascam isn't properly connected to the Daking (see below).

The other option is that the preamp is lacking a proper ground — quite possibly because of the missing connector contact. The 388 is, I believe, class-II (double-insulated) so also lacks a ground and expects one from connected sources.

I'd get the PSU plug replaced/fixed as a first step... although if its PSU is also a double-insulated type you'll still be lacking a ground from the mains.

However, that first possibility — the output cable wiring — might very well be the issue given that it doesn't buzz if you connect via the Tascam (balanced) mic input.

The Daking output is transformer coupled and the Tascam line input is unbalanced. So the connecting cable wiring is critical. You MUST use a TS plug at the Tascam end.

If it's an XLR output connector on the Daking it needs to be wired with pin-3 linked to pin-1 (screen), and pin-2 to signal. If you're using an XLR-TRS cable the ring has no connection, and thus the cold side of the transformer isn't connected to anything. Hence nasty buzzes as the cable acts as a TV aerial.

If it's a TRS output, then you can use a standard mono TS-TS instrument cable which will ground the cold side of the output transformer in the Daking. DO NOT use TRS-TRS cable!


Hey Hugh Robjohns
The Daking line output is XLR and the 388 is unbalanced line in. Only option I have is using a an XLR-TRS, I don’t think I’ve been able to find XLR-TS. But like I stated in first part - I thought it was the cable, but I tested it on my BAE and my Chandler pre (same thing XLR output to the unbalanced line in on the 388 ) using the same XLR-TRS cable, and no buzz… so it’s just doing it on the Daking
cubovich@gmail.com
New here
Posts: 5 Joined: Sat May 27, 2023 11:46 am

Re: DAKING + 388 Buzz?

Post by cubovich@gmail.com »

Wonks wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 1:27 pm I believe its a six pin connector, so those six pins will have been selected for a reason (otherwise it would be a five-pin connector).

You should be able to take the cover off the connector and see how many wires there are in the cable. If there's a spare wire in there floating around and not connected to the missing pin, then that will be the one cause of your problem. It may not be the only cause, but getting that fixed should be your first priority.

Check the missing pin hasn't broken off inside the female part of the connector in the preamp. There's no point fitting a new connector (a six-pin DIN) without removing the broken pin as the new one either won't fit, or you'll break the same pin off trying to push it in. Get a DIN connector with a metal, rather than a plastic casing.

If you do the repair yourself, take pictures and notes so the wires go back on the correct pins.

If all else fails, you can buy replacement power supplies.

https://www.zenproaudio.com/daking-power-supply

The Daking web site itself seems to be mainly inaccessible past the intro page with SEC_ERROR_REVOKED_CERTIFICATE errors. Either they've got big web hosting issues, or they or their distribution company www.transaudiogroup.com has problems.

Hey Wonks, the Daking is a 5 pin, came with original Daking supply, and opening it up, the neutrik 5 pin doesn’t look aftermarket/replaced.

I think I got to replace the whole neutrik male inside the Daking. The wires are just a red and a black and there’s another wire that I assume is ground soldered up top.
cubovich@gmail.com
New here
Posts: 5 Joined: Sat May 27, 2023 11:46 am

Re: DAKING + 388 Buzz?

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

cubovich@gmail.com wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 8:10 pmThe Daking line output is XLR and the 388 is unbalanced line in. Only option I have is using a an XLR-TRS...

That absolutely, categorically, will not work. You will always get a very buzzy, feeble signal because the cold side of the Daking output transformer is not connected to anything.

I don’t think I’ve been able to find XLR-TS.

They definitely exist. For example:
J&D XLR to 1/4 inch Mono Microphone Ca ... /d/8h9LJng

Or: https://hosatech.com/products/analog-au ... s/pxf-100/

But like I stated in first part - I thought it was the cable, but I tested it on my BAE and my Chandler pre (same thing XLR output to the unbalanced line in on the 388 ) using the same XLR-TRS cable, and no buzz… so it’s just doing it on the Daking

I don't know which specific preamps you're using, but if they have electronically balanced outputs, (or grounded centre-tapped transformer outputs) they would work fine without a cold side connection because the signal on pin-2 would be referenced to ground.
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 38670 Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual... 

Re: DAKING + 388 Buzz?

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

cubovich@gmail.com wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 8:26 pmHey Wonks, the Daking is a 5 pin, came with original Daking supply, and opening it up, the neutrik 5 pin doesn’t look aftermarket/replaced.

Daking have a habit of changing the power connections. The website shows a PSU with a 6-pin male XLR, but it also shows a IV preamp with a coaxial power inlet... so I think it all depends which production generation you have.

I think I got to replace the whole neutrik male inside the Daking. The wires are just a red and a black and there’s another wire that I assume is ground soldered up top.

Ah... if you're able to do that you can modify your audio cables too. As s temporary fix/experiment, open the audio cable's female XLR and solder (or just twist) a piece of wire between pin-3 (the middle one) and pin-1 (the one with the cable screen on it). See if that cures your buzz problem.

As a permanent fix, you can leave that link, but mark the cable so you know its now unbalanced... or replace the TRS plug with a TS plug. The wire that went to the TRS tip goes to the TS tip, while the screen and other (ring) signal wire both go to the sleeve terminal.
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 38670 Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual... 

Re: DAKING + 388 Buzz?

Post by cubovich@gmail.com »

Yeah I’m just not sure - I have a BAE 1023L with it’s own PSU, also a Chandler Limited Germanium
Pre with its own PSU as well. You connect their XLR to the Line in of the 388 = no buzzing.
You do that with the Daking, which has the same set up - XLR to line in 388, using same cable, and there’s a buzz.

I also am confused by the link you posted because it says MONO XLR -TS - First picture is xlr to what looks like TS, then every other photo has two lines on the 1/4” which looks like TRS
cubovich@gmail.com
New here
Posts: 5 Joined: Sat May 27, 2023 11:46 am

Re: DAKING + 388 Buzz?

Post by James Perrett »

When you connect a balanced source to an unbalanced input the exact wiring needed depends on the design of the balanced output.

As Hugh has already explained, the transformer output that the Daking uses has to be wired differently to the active balanced or grounded centre tapped transformer outputs that your other devices use. Pin 2 on the XLR has to be wired to the tip of the jack plug while pin 3 has to be wired to the sleeve of the jack plug. As you've found, you don't get any signal if pin 3 is left disconnected (which is what is happening if you try to use a normal TRS to XLR cable).
User avatar
James Perrett
Moderator
Posts: 14131 Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:00 am Location: The wilds of Hampshire
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration. JRP Music Facebook Page

Re: DAKING + 388 Buzz?

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

cubovich@gmail.com wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 11:48 pm Yeah I’m just not sure - I have a BAE 1023L with it’s own PSU, also a Chandler Limited Germanium
Pre...

Interesting... I think they both have transformer-coupled outputs... I wonder if they are centre-tapped?

I'd still try that XLR pin-1 to pin-3 link as I described above with the Daking as its an easy experiment that may be very telling...

I also am confused by the link you posted because it says MONO XLR -TS - First picture is xlr to what looks like TS, then every other photo has two lines on the 1/4” which looks like TRS

Hosa make a lot of different cables... its the first one I was referring to.
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 38670 Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual... 

Re: DAKING + 388 Buzz?

Post by cubovich@gmail.com »

Ok Hugh! You were right! Hallelujah- went out and bought 8 XLR - TS plugged in the daking and boom we got no buzz. Don’t know what’s up with the Daking but if you’re going to 1/4” it NEEDS TS or else it’s buzz city :headbang:
cubovich@gmail.com
New here
Posts: 5 Joined: Sat May 27, 2023 11:46 am

Re: DAKING + 388 Buzz?

Post by Mike Stranks »

cubovich@gmail.com wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 2:22 am ... Don’t know what’s up with the Daking...

Nothing. You just used the wrong lead for the job.
Mike Stranks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10464 Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:00 am
Post Reply