Arpangel wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:03 pm
My theories about treating rooms related to monitors goes out the window completely when it comes to the barmy world of hi-fi, how many hi-fi people have I witnessed who have massive high end speakers in regular domestic living rooms, I sold a pair of Quad ESL63’s to a guy who turned out to be living in a caravan, he wanted his money back as they didn’t sound how he thought they would, what? in an 8X8 caravan? The amount of gear he had in there could have amounted to the deposit on a nice semi.
Wow, two ELS63s would have taken up a significant chunk of his space.
Yes, there wasn’t room for two people!
I had trouble getting them to sound good in my big room, they were amazing, but you have to give them room to breath.
muzines wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:08 pm
Crazy! Probably would have been easily solved by connecting his caravan power source using those $10,000 gold-plated connections...
They are very sensitive to damp, they hiss loudly if they get damp.
Arpangel wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:03 pm
I sold a pair of Quad ESL63’s to a guy who turned out to be living in a caravan, he wanted his money back as they didn’t sound how he thought they would, what? in an 8X8 caravan?
I've heard them in a similar sized empty room. There were real issues with the sound but the owner was completely happy with them.
I've found that my Tannoy dual concentrics work well in poor rooms because the dual concentric driver allows you to work very close to them without the stereo image breaking down. This minimises the contribution of the room - a bit like a pair of giant headphones. However, they are even better in a properly treated room.
And to go back to the previous debate - I've actually heard the sound of NS10s improve in a room with poor acoustics. We used to use them on top of the cupboards in our fairly large and echoey kitchen where they lost much of their harshness and even seemed to have some bass.
James Perrett wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 2:24 pm
I've heard them in a similar sized empty room. There were real issues with the sound but the owner was completely happy with them.
The ESLs radiation pattern is fig-8, so you get a lot of HF bouncing off the back walls that you wouldn't get with more conventional speakers
I've actually heard the sound of NS10s improve in a room with poor acoustics. We used to use them on top of the cupboards in our fairly large and echoey kitchen where they lost much of their harshness and even seemed to have some bass.
Two boundary layers to lift the low end, and well off-axis to the tweeter... works for me!
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
Arpangel wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:03 pm
I sold a pair of Quad ESL63’s to a guy who turned out to be living in a caravan, he wanted his money back as they didn’t sound how he thought they would, what? in an 8X8 caravan?
I've heard them in a similar sized empty room. There were real issues with the sound but the owner was completely happy with them.
I've found that my Tannoy dual concentrics work well in poor rooms because the dual concentric driver allows you to work very close to them without the stereo image breaking down. This minimises the contribution of the room - a bit like a pair of giant headphones. However, they are even better in a properly treated room.
And to go back to the previous debate - I've actually heard the sound of NS10s improve in a room with poor acoustics. We used to use them on top of the cupboards in our fairly large and echoey kitchen where they lost much of their harshness and even seemed to have some bass.
I’ve always found infinite baffle speakers worked well in my room, things like NS10’s, they sounded tighter and more controlled.
I’ve really got to get rid of these Berry’s, but I’m stumped as to what to replace them with, I’d like sealed boxes, but they tend to be expensive.
Arpangel wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 3:26 pm
I’ve always found infinite baffle speakers worked well in my room, things like NS10’s, they sounded tighter and more controlled.
I’ve really got to get rid of these Berry’s, but I’m stumped as to what to replace them with, I’d like sealed boxes, but they tend to be expensive.
Acoustic Energy AE22s still come up on eBay occasionally
Lots of people around these parts really liked them back in the day
When I checked out Audeze EL8 Planar open backed headphones reviewed by Sam https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/audeze-lcd-x-el8
it was clear to me EL8 are more Hifi headphones.
EL8 sound impressive clear yet not as accurate as my K712 which I had at hand to compare.
Accuracy is more important to me.
Yet if going for a Hifi sound I can understand someone purchasing EL8 mixing mastering to it.
Similarly in an Untreated room I can understand a person getting some decent Hifi speakers that sounds impressive clear in this untreated room, mixing mastering to these Hifi speakers with reference to some commercially released music played on same Hifi speakers.
Also how many hours did we spend in our yooooff laying on the floor speakers on the floor listening to records, tapes.
This is how I mix my own music nowadays.
Arpangel wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 3:26 pm
I’ve always found infinite baffle speakers worked well in my room, things like NS10’s, they sounded tighter and more controlled.
I’ve really got to get rid of these Berry’s, but I’m stumped as to what to replace them with, I’d like sealed boxes, but they tend to be expensive.
Acoustic Energy AE22s still come up on eBay occasionally
Lots of people around these parts really liked them back in the day
This is what I’d recommend in a heartbeat if you’re looking for a great sealed box stereo pair. They’re not exactly small, but it’s a wonderful speaker.
I’ve just sold my pair to The Elf since I’m going for multiple smaller speakers for Atmos etc., but I don’t believe I’ll be hearing a sonic upgrade over the AE22!
I almost bought a pair of AE22’s when they came out, I liked them a lot, I wish I had.
They are rare secondhand now, if anyone knows of any I’d be grateful.
Arpangel wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:52 am
I almost bought a pair of AE22’s when they came out, I liked them a lot, I wish I had.
They are rare secondhand now, if anyone knows of any I’d be grateful.
Right now there appear to be two sets on eBay and one on Reverb. Don’t know they’re the ones you’re referring to.
Arpangel wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:52 am
I almost bought a pair of AE22’s when they came out, I liked them a lot, I wish I had.
They are rare secondhand now, if anyone knows of any I’d be grateful.
Right now there appear to be two sets on eBay and one on Reverb. Don’t know they’re the ones you’re referring to.
philb wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 12:36 pm
Agree totally, although there's two options. Let's say buy some at 1.500 now, put 500 in basic treatment. Then treat room step by step, and monitors are sounding better with every step more in treatment.
Option B: Buy monitors for 500 (obviously worse sound capabilities), other 1500 in treatment. Then wanting to use more of the potential by treatment, trying to sell these 500 ones for 300, having a loss of 200 and still not the money to buy the 1.500 ones.
Difficult
And agaoim, I totally agree that treatment is fundamental in any case, as said, already in contact with GIK; they have a sketch of my room now, and waiting for some further response
Total cost for DIY panels in my 4 x 4 m room, <£350. that's 7 x broad band absorbers and 3 x bass traps. The difference compared to the untreated room is massive. As I said in my earlier post, buy the Neumann KH80's and spend £500 on treatment, the extra £1k may get you another 10% improvement over the first £500 but the first £500 will get you 70-80% of the way.
