Am I hearing right?

Advice on everything from getting your music heard to setting up a label and royalties.

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Re: Am I hearing right?

Post by BigRedX »

For me streaming services are used either as background music or "try before I buy", and for that the free version of Spotify works perfectly well.

If I really want to support an artist I'll go to one of their gigs and buy their CD or record, or a T-shirt (which is normally has the biggest profit margin of any item on the merch table).
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Re: Am I hearing right?

Post by BigRedX »

One of the things those two new articles highlighted (and which I have seen mentioned elsewhere) was the payment of royalties for session musicians who played on a recording.

How is that going to work? Surely they were all paid a session fee for their performance in the recording studio and that should have been that? So where is the money to pay these additional musicians going to come from? Who is going to have to take a cut it order to fund it?
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Re: Am I hearing right?

Post by Drew Stephenson »

BigRedX wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 2:38 pm One of the things those two new articles highlighted (and which I have seen mentioned elsewhere) was the payment of royalties for session musicians who played on a recording.

How is that going to work? Surely they were all paid a session fee for their performance in the recording studio and that should have been that? So where is the money to pay these additional musicians going to come from? Who is going to have to take a cut it order to fund it?

All very valid questions. The devil is always in the detail.

But an agreement on the metadata is a good first step, at least then you've got the detail...
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Re: Am I hearing right?

Post by tea for two »

From my time spending some (anxious) hours in London with a few of the tech Moguls in 2014 2015.
Tech investor Moguls are interested in Empire building Worldwide through tech.
Tech investors want to feel as Mogul Emperors.
It isn't for no reason that they are termed tech Mogul.

They are Not interested in profits, as they have $Billions in digital numbers to burn.
They couldn't give two hoots about paying out to tom dick n harry that's just a by product of their Worldwide Empire building.

So if you have a tech concept that can become a Worldwide Empire as AirBnB, Spotify, then you can make a deal with the devil as it were : become a tech $Billionaire sell your soul who gives an Flyin F about your soul right.

I had still have 2 such Worldwide Empire building tech projects.
I pulled out thankfully in time.
Very happy being a nobody.
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Re: Am I hearing right?

Post by James Perrett »

BigRedX wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 2:38 pm Who is going to have to take a cut it order to fund it?

As I understand it, session musicians are already paid for physical media sales so I guess they are proposing something similar for streams.
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Re: Am I hearing right?

Post by BigRedX »

James Perrett wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 8:45 pmAs I understand it, session musicians are already paid for physical media sales so I guess they are proposing something similar for streams.

And who would have normally got that money? Because it has to come from somewhere.

As I see it there are two types of session playing. The first where you are simply there to play what you are told, usually from a score. To me that's like being a builder. You are there to do a job and you get paid once the job (recording) is complete and that is that. As a builder you don't carry on getting paid because what you built is still standing. The second is where you have creative input in what you play and therefore you should be entitled to a writing credit and the performance royalties that come with it.

I've done a little bit of "session" work for musicians and bands that I know. I don't read (or at least not well enough for someone to stick a score in front of me and for me to be able to play it straight away) so my work has always been "creative" and I have been asked to play because the person asking me to play has specifically wanted my input and musical style as part of the music. In these cases I have always played for free and got for a songwriting credit in return. Had I decided to take a "session fee" instead I wouldn't be expecting any further payment for my work at a later date.
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Re: Am I hearing right?

Post by amanise »

BigRedX wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:17 am As I see it there are two types of session playing. The first where you are simply there to play what you are told, usually from a score. .... The second is where you have creative input in what you play and therefore you should be entitled to a writing credit and the performance royalties that come with it.

This would define the point at which you had claim over some or all of the intellectual property of an original work. The writing credit would be acknowledgement of that IP share - but I'm not sure it directly translates into guaranteed money. Probably what a lot of the fights are about.
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Re: Am I hearing right?

Post by Drew Stephenson »

BigRedX wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:17 am
James Perrett wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 8:45 pmAs I understand it, session musicians are already paid for physical media sales so I guess they are proposing something similar for streams.

And who would have normally got that money? Because it has to come from somewhere.

The cynic in me steps forward once again to suggest that any unclaimed residuals are currently 'just resting' in the label's bank accounts.
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Re: Am I hearing right?

Post by James Perrett »

BigRedX wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:17 am
James Perrett wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 8:45 pmAs I understand it, session musicians are already paid for physical media sales so I guess they are proposing something similar for streams.

And who would have normally got that money? Because it has to come from somewhere.

I'd have to say that I can't tell you - I just remember all the similar arguments when the proposals came up for physical media. I do know that the label I work with supplies performer information nowadays to their digital distributor so it looks like parts of the industry have accepted that this is coming.
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Re: Am I hearing right?

Post by room66 »

I can only state here what I know about the collecting agencies in my country (Austria):
All royalties are divided in 4 parts
- composer
- lyricist (is that a word?)
- label
- performers

All unclaimed royalties remain with the collecting agency, not the label. So if there's no label, or if the label or producer didn't supply any performer data the collecting agency keeps their royalties and I think eventually these get distributed between everyone. I.e. a raise in royalties all round. On a percentage basis. Whoever collects most royalties in the country gets the biggest cut. Small labels and artists usually get nothing as their percentage of the pile is so small it adds up to cents only.
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Re: Am I hearing right?

Post by Martin Walker »

Drew Stephenson wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:19 am
BigRedX wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:17 am
James Perrett wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 8:45 pmAs I understand it, session musicians are already paid for physical media sales so I guess they are proposing something similar for streams.

And who would have normally got that money? Because it has to come from somewhere.

The cynic in me steps forward once again to suggest that any unclaimed residuals are currently 'just resting' in the label's bank accounts.

Perhaps we should peruade the labels to give a (Father) TED talk? :beamup:
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