Taming resonances

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Taming resonances

Post by apaclin »

Hi, today's topic for discussion is resonances😊. How do you tame them?

My thoughts regarding vocal for example. I see people sweeping for resonances with narrow q very often and I also hear from other ones that this technique spoils the sound :)

My thoughts, regarding vocals for example:
1. As the notes constantly change it may be hard to catch resonances – some last very short time. So if you are are sweeping – you may miss it because it may happen while you’re not there. Unless you hear them while they happen, but then there's no point in sweeping.

2. There may be be wider areas where resonances appear, so makes sense to correct with wider curves first and then go for narrow ones?

Do you use Soothe2 to tame resonances or do you tame them with equaliser, if so with dynamic bands or regular ones and why?

And what do you think about it in general?
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by ore_terra »

if it is a resonance it is (almost) always there.
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by MegaBacher »

For inconsistent resonances like with vocals (rather than drums) I use a combination of these 4 plugins stacked in order to clean up the initial recording of a track. These are meant to be corrective and transparent, not to make creative sound effects. That comes later in the mix.

1st - C-Vox Noise Reduction Plugin
2nd - SPL Transient Designer
3rd - Fabfilter Pro Q3 Equalizer set to a high-Q dynamic response on that resonant freq.
4th - Voxengo's TEOTE set to mastering, fluid response and flat EQ.
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by James Perrett »

ReaFIR (in compressor mode) is the tool I would try first if eq isn't working.
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by Spells »

Old school Waves C4 still works wonders... but Soothe, as much as I am lazy learning newer plugins, really does work.
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by Tim Gillett »

There's nothing like a real life audio example. Here's an excerpt from a classic 60's BBC TV show sound track. Can anyone identify the basic correction needed in terms of frequency, Q and decibels?

https://youtu.be/O3Jup5jpxaA
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by Cimot »

apaclin wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:15 pm Hi, today's topic for discussion is resonances😊. How do you tame them?

My thoughts regarding vocal for example. I see people sweeping for resonances with narrow q very often and I also hear from other ones that this technique spoils the sound :)

My thoughts, regarding vocals for example:
1. As the notes constantly change it may be hard to catch resonances – some last very short time. So if you are are sweeping – you may miss it because it may happen while you’re not there. Unless you hear them while they happen, but then there's no point in sweeping.

2. There may be be wider areas where resonances appear, so makes sense to correct with wider curves first and then go for narrow ones?

Do you use Soothe2 to tame resonances or do you tame them with equaliser, if so with dynamic bands or regular ones and why?

And what do you think about it in general?


Dynamic Eq, im using free Plugin from Tokyo dawn!work well!
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by Tomás Mulcahy »

Oeksound Soothe 2 is by far the easiest and most effective tool for this job IME. I prefer it to Gullfos. TDR Nova is great but you have to tune it yourself.
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by amanise »

This is probably a very 'caveman' way of looking at it - but here goes. I see people doing the same thing - so get what you mean. I also see the point made that 'if its a resonance it's always there'. Or - it will be there for longish periods. In respect of things like vox which change all the time, I have found it useful to loop the audio in shorter and shorter loop regions, and sweep with it playing looped so that the suspected offending area comes around continually until you are happy you have nailed where it is and can then drop the EQ point on it and set a better level. The chances are your problem - if not a lengthy resonating one - will be a repeating one throughout - especially if its in a chorus or something. The letter 'F' for example. I don't know how this would be done if your DAW isn't loop focused like mine (ACID Pro 10) - but I can't imagine there's one out there that can't loop at all. Oh, and I use TDR Nova, which I love because it's easy to understand and gives great results.
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by MarkOne »

Probably the best method is to move the mic, or change the mic, or record in a different spot, and not have the problem to start with.
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by apaclin »

MarkOne wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:42 am Probably the best method is to move the mic, or change the mic, or record in a different spot, and not have the problem to start with.

Yeah, when I record in a treated room, there’s no such problem, but when record at home for social media, it’s needed to tame the resonances.
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by Tim Gillett »

MarkOne wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:42 am Probably the best method is to move the mic, or change the mic, or record in a different spot, and not have the problem to start with.

Yes. It can seem strange when people use what are almost last resort post production restoration methods to deal with a vocal where the vocalist is available and there is the luxury of a retake. Last resort methods normally come in when there is no other way, such as with historic recordings where a retake is out of the question.
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by ore_terra »

MegaBacher wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:50 pm
1st - C-Vox Noise Reduction Plugin
2nd - SPL Transient Designer
3rd - Fabfilter Pro Q3 Equalizer set to a high-Q dynamic response on that resonant freq.
4th - Voxengo's TEOTE set to mastering, fluid response and flat EQ.

Just following the logic of that chain. Sounds rather smart! Sort of DIY soothe 😀
What’s the TEOTE doing in the chain? I’m not familiar with that plugin
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by Drew Stephenson »

I'd generally look at a dynamic EQ (TDR Nova is my choice) or a bit of Sound Theory's Gullfoss can do a good job.
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Tim Gillett wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:31 pmCan anyone identify the basic correction needed in terms of frequency, Q and decibels?

https://youtu.be/O3Jup5jpxaA

Not without downloading it and playing around for a while! :)
Trying to 'correct' an entire mix is a bit of a different kettle of fish to tackling a resonance in a specific track though.
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by Tim Gillett »

Drew Stephenson wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:30 pm
Tim Gillett wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:31 pmCan anyone identify the basic correction needed in terms of frequency, Q and decibels?

https://youtu.be/O3Jup5jpxaA

Not without downloading it and playing around for a while! :)
Trying to 'correct' an entire mix is a bit of a different kettle of fish to tackling a resonance in a specific track though.

Well of course it requires a little work but for anyone with good listening skills, it should be obvious there's a harsh peak in the midrange, making listening unpleasant. With the great FFT spectral analysis tools around for decades now it's made so much easier too. We not only hear the problem but see it on the screen. I did the fix in under 5 minutes, which applies to the entire 3 hours or so of the still very popular surviving Dusty Springfield TV shows. But it seems one static EQ tweak of one midband of a mono soundtrack was too much for the relevent BBC audio remastering staff...
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by apaclin »

I saw this video recently, where a dude uses eq in a linear phase and notches to reduce the resonances. So how does it combine when a guy has 3 grammies, but causes pre-ringing by doing that (linear phase + narrow qs)?
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cWYfvkmfC1k
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Most audio tweakery is compromise, it's trying to find the one that delivers the best benefit whilst causing the least harm. This will vary from track to track depending on the composition, the recording, the room, the arrangement and everything else - it's why there really are no rules but plenty of guidelines and suggestions. And why most problems have multiple possible solutions.
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

Tim Gillett wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:54 pmBut it seems one static EQ tweak of one midband of a mono soundtrack was too much for the relevent BBC audio remastering staff...

The video wasn't posted on YouTube from an official BBC source.... :roll: so who knows where it came from or what happened to it en route. But I'm sure we are all deeply impressed that your audio abilities are so far beyond everyone else's. Well done. :lol:
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by Tim Gillett »

Hugh Robjohns wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:44 pm
Tim Gillett wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:54 pmBut it seems one static EQ tweak of one midband of a mono soundtrack was too much for the relevent BBC audio remastering staff...

The video wasn't posted on YouTube from an official BBC source.... :roll: so who knows where it came from or what happened to it en route...

The source I used was an official "Dusty Live at the BBC" DVD set but the YT source I cited here demonstrates the ugly mid range peak very well. Again, not a difficult or time consuming fix.
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by sonics »

apaclin wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:15 pm Do you use Soothe2 to tame resonances or do you tame them with equaliser, if so with dynamic bands or regular ones and why?

And what do you think about it in general?

Which resonances, exactly? ;)

Resonances that typically need attending to would be things like room (for example a badly-recorded track) and vocal. I avoid fixating on that sort of thing when mixing music. Balancing sound for video and TV is another matter, and that's where I use more of the various tools to control frequency peaks.

I saw some crazy guy on YouTube slicing into a guitar track with lots of narrow cuts. That was endorsed by a very popular (and professional) audio YouTuber! :lolno:

I use what's appropriate; sometimes surgical EQ, sometimes broad dynamic EQ moves, and sometimes specialised plugins. We should all make sure there's a problem before we go slapping Soothe on every track. Now that's a quick way to make bland-sounding music!

WRT the Dusty track, any engineer (esp live sound) worth their salt would be straight onto that nasal honk. If only improving the background singers were that easy! :lol:
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by amanise »

Hugh Robjohns wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:44 pm
Tim Gillett wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:54 pmBut it seems one static EQ tweak of one midband of a mono soundtrack was too much for the relevent BBC audio remastering staff...

The video wasn't posted on YouTube from an official BBC source....

Go you Hugh! We just can't have them treating Aunty like this :bouncy:
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by Hugh Robjohns »

Well... you know... facts are facts and I object to falsehoods, especially when presented with an unwarranted sense of superiority!

In the 60s the Beeb was using the Ampex Quadruplex format video recorders which ran 2-inch tape costing around £120 an hour (equivalent to about £2,500 a reel in todays money!)... So not surprisingly, the beeb wiped and reused those tapes routinely. That policy was still in place when I joined the Beeb in the 80s, and we were re-using each reel of 1-inch C-format video tape on average 5 times before it was scrapped. A programme had to be deemed extremely important to have the tape archived long-term.

It is a matter of record that the tapes from those BBC Dusty Springfield shows in 1966 and 67 (and I think 1969, too) were wiped — along with countless other shows and series along the way. Lost Dr Who and Dad's Army episodes were high profile examples. At the time, none of those shows were considered valuable enough to warrant long-term archiving of the tapes. Today, with a different perspective, those decisions may appear foolish but that's just the reality and practicality of way it was back then.

So... the 'Dusty at the BBC' DVD's referred to were actually produced and released by Universal — not the BBC — and created from recovered material obtained from private archives of home recordings. I've no idea what quality material Universal started with, but I'd be very surprised if they made it any worse, and in all likelihood they worked hard to make it as good as they could in the circumstances.

I'd say the sound on the YT presentation is seriously lacking bass rather than just having a mid-range hump — possibly to reduce recorded hum? — but we all listen with different ears.

A quick scan of some comments on Amazon reveals that many people have complained about the sound quality, although one I read suggested that "Those clips broadcast by the BBC were far more rounded and wholesome than these..." Presumably that commentator has a very good memory! :lol:

Anyway, the point is that Tim's unnecessary put down was well wide of the mark... And not for the first time.

Still, it's the Internet, innit? Purpose-designed to make it easy to criticise people you don't know, over things they had nothing to do with, from a position of zero knowledge and less respect. :madas:
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Re: Taming resonances

Post by amanise »

Hugh Robjohns wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:33 pm ...Still, it's the Internet, innit? Purpose-designed to make it easy to criticise people you don't know, over things they had nothing to do with, from a position of zero knowledge and less respect. :madas:

...and often from the safety of anonymous accounts with funny Avatars and usernames. Its a brave new world. The only criticism I have (as one who knows nothing about anything and has even fewer friends) of everything you've expressed here is that it's spelt R.E.S.P.E.K. now I believe. Innit. :crazy:

Aunty Beeb gets a lot of unfair criticism in my book. The more you travel and see what the rest of the world get served up in the guise of current affairs and entertainment - the more you value it. (Dons flack jacket, gas mask AND steel helmet)
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