Apple Vision Pro

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Apple Vision Pro

Post by RichardT »

Apple’s new VR/AR headset looks like it has a lot of potential for musicians - both live and in the studio. Or more likely, it’s cheaper successors…

Maybe we will no longer need screens in our studios. And we can trigger instruments and sounds by looking at them. Edit automation by looking and moving our fingers. Play virtual keyboards and other instruments.

This could be a lot of fun.

I won’t post a link because Apple’s website is going to be the best place to find out more- and it’s not up there yet.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by The Elf »

HOW MUCH?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? :headbang::headbang::headbang:

I'll stick with my Quest 2, thanks... :lol:
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by RichardT »

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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Well I guess it will answer that whole question about how to get your screens in positions that don't interfere with your monitors...

I couldn't see a price on that link and I'm probably happiest like that! :D
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by RichardT »

Drew Stephenson wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:14 pm Well I guess it will answer that whole question about how to get your screens in positions that don't interfere with your monitors...

I couldn't see a price on that link and I'm probably happiest like that! :D

I think it’s best to wait a few years anyway until music software fully integrates with it. And how will Windows fit into this picture? I doubt that Apple will make the integration cross-platform, but who knows?
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by ConcertinaChap »

Look pretty cool from the front but clunky from the back so that's halfway to making them marketable. And a snip at $3499.

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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by The Elf »

All this virtual screen stuff can already be done. I've run Cubase on a virtual screen inside my Quest 2. It's not for me, but it can be done (though I quite enjoy sitting in a virtual cinema!).

But yet again Apple will make it seem that it's a completely new thing. They do seem quite skilled at doing that.

I don't doubt that the image quality will be a huge leap forward, though.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by OneWorld »

The Elf wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:57 pm

But yet again Apple will make it seem that it's a completely new thing. They do seem quite skilled at doing that.


Some years back, a Chinese coder, working with Apple, in China, claims he first suggested, and wrote the code for Siri. He claimed he was never paid for that 'invention' that Apple took the idea and claimed it as their own. He took Apple to court and lost, and lost a lot of money in the process too!

When asked why he lost he replied "Simple, I could only afford 1 lawyer, Apple had 12"
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by The Korff »

The Elf wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:57 pmI don't doubt that the image quality will be a huge leap forward, though.

That'll be the key. Text legibility on current-gen headsets isn't great, especially when the text is being rendered on a virtual screen that's some distance away. My Mk1 Rift is pretty crap at it; not tried a Quest 1/2 yet (I envy yours!) but even the Index isn't great for virtual screens.

If it's light and comfortable enough to be worn for long periods, and the screen quality is good enough, it could well be the 'productivity VR' headset that Meta were trying to do with the Quest Pro.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by tea for two »

Price is eye watering.
I wonder whether it's as clear legible as the promo vids make out.
Also how motion blurry does the legibility get when we move our head at average head moving speed.
I think I'd dig I'm as Tony Stark in augmented reality, happy to wait until 7th gen headsets at around £200 by somebody.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by RichardT »

The Elf wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:57 pm All this virtual screen stuff can already be done. I've run Cubase on a virtual screen inside my Quest 2. It's not for me, but it can be done (though I quite enjoy sitting in a virtual cinema!).

But yet again Apple will make it seem that it's a completely new thing. They do seem quite skilled at doing that.

I don't doubt that the image quality will be a huge leap forward, though.

They do!

I'm hoping that it will be possible to integrate the Vision Pro more deeply into apps than has been possible before - it can integrate at the OS level in a way that the others, I suspect, can't do. At least on the Mac platform.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by Sam Inglis »

SOS's inside man at the WWDC got to try it out and was *very* impressed.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by The Elf »

Sam Inglis wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:03 pm SOS's inside man at the WWDC got to try it out and was *very* impressed.

For the asking price I would hope he would be! :lol:
(It's hard to see past those kinds of numbers):shocked:

Look forward to reading about it? :thumbup:
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by Drew Stephenson »

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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by muzines »

The Elf wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:24 pm For the asking price I would hope he would be! :lol:
(It's hard to see past those kinds of numbers):shocked:

This is why it has the "Pro" branding - it signifies this is the high-end model, not a consumer version, with price expectations accordingly.

Once they get this out, and work out the kinks to figure out exactly what features are important to users, there will no doubt be less premium, non-Pro versions that can't do everything the high end ones do, but still offer a good experience. Expect them to follow the iPhone trajectory - we're at the iPhone 1 stage right now, when it's more expensive than anything else, and only the hyper-enthusiastic people are going to get in for whatever it costs.

The interesting thing for me is not so much the hardware at this point (though the engineering and problem solving is impressive), it's really the "spatial computing" metaphor. Is spatial computing going to a "thing" that people want, and find important use cases for? AR has very obvious benefits to me, spatial computing I'm less sure about, and it remains to be seen whether people embrace this and find it valuable over our existing ways to "computer".
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by RichardT »

Spatial audio could be great for musicians, provided it’s supplemented with haptic feedback - imagine playing a ‘virtual instrument’ generated by computer.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by Eddy Deegan »

From a purely technical perspective I'm impressed with the achievement but I wouldn't consider one of these for a moment myself. The privacy implications are hideous to contemplate and you know they'll be looking to squeeze every last drop out of you that they can.

This is where I suspect this technology tends towards if left to run unabated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs

No thanks! :sick:
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by The Elf »

I've been using virtual desktop on Quest 2 for a couple of years. It is genuinely useful at times.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by ManFromGlass »

Might save me the cost of buying four or more high end monitors to run Logic on . . . . . . .
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by tea for two »

This Star Trek always make me chortle.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QpWhugUmV ... VyIA%3D%3D

I can see Zuke being totally into this as Zuke has vested interest in prawnhub :lol:

I shall check it ooot in an apple store.
I wonder whether looking at Logic multiband eq thereafter looking up/down will lower/raise the curve of a specific frequency.
I can see meself getting cross eyed :crazy: lol.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by sonics »

I watched the video. I laughed in particular at the FaceTime call, thinking that the two guests were not able to see the host's face. Then they announced it's presented as a virtual model, complete with computerised expressions. What a joke. Zoom would be better! :)

I can imaging enjoying a movie (only on my own), but that's a lot of movie tickets, and I only watch a few a year!

Fancy tech, but so, so useless and disconnecting IMO. It'll be interesting to see what it gets used for, though.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by RichardT »

In conjunction with low-latency 5G, it could be wonderful for rehearsing when band members are in different locations - or even recording.

In fact we could form virtual groups with members anywhere in the world.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by Drew Stephenson »

RichardT wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:10 pm In fact we could form virtual groups with members anywhere in the world.

Latency will never get that low. Physics innit.
You could get to the stage of rehearsing across a town or even a county perhaps. But $3.5k per head buys a lot of rehearsal time in a studio. ;)
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by RichardT »

Drew Stephenson wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:38 pm
RichardT wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:10 pm In fact we could form virtual groups with members anywhere in the world.

Latency will never get that low. Physics innit.
You could get to the stage of rehearsing across a town or even a county perhaps. But $3.5k per head buys a lot of rehearsal time in a studio. ;)

Ah, yes you’re right! But I’m not thinking of the 1st generation, more like generation 10.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by muzines »

RichardT wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:49 pm But I’m not thinking of the 1st generation, more like generation 10.

Of physics? Oh, I didn't realise it was still in development!

If so, I'd like to submit a feature request - please make it so my tea stays hot even if I've forgotten to drink it for a while...

Oh, and I guess simple and low-effort nuclear cold fusion would be fun, too.. :thumbup:

(But mostly the tea thing...)
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Well that will certainly bring the cost down, but for rehearsal you really need to be thinking round-trip latency. So that's A-D conversion at one end + processing / batching up in source computer + transit time + unpacking + D-A at the other PLUS the same thing in reverse.
If we assume 2ms for each bit of conversion and packaging, then you could do a round trip between York and London in 10ms.

Which would be definitely acceptable.

But if you tried the same thing with London to New York, then your transit time (assuming speed of light in fibre rather than a vacuum) is about 26ms, so your round trip would be 60ms.

Which would be unworkable.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by Drew Stephenson »

muzines wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:00 pm If so, I'd like to submit a feature request - please make it so my tea stays hot even if I've forgotten to drink it for a while...

Via the miracles of modern science! Image
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by muzines »

Drew Stephenson wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:05 pm Via the miracles of modern science!

How does the world not know of such wonders! :shocked::crazy:

(I refuse to pay £150 for a hipster Ember mug, that's for sure... Three extra trips to the microwave at least excercises my legs going up and down the stairs...)
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by Drew Stephenson »

muzines wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:27 pmI refuse to pay £150 for a hipster Ember mug, that's for sure...

:shocked:
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by MarkOne »

I still think that AR particularly will change the way we interact with the world generally. We just need the right product that looks far more like a pair of upscale sunglasses than part of a spacesuit. But I'm sure that will come.

My old boss was very good friends with Peter Chou, the founder of HTC (and laterly VIVE) and he came and spent an afternoon talking to us abut his vision for AR and some of the very interesting use cases (particularly in the business world)
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