Apple Vision Pro

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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by RichardT »

muzines wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:00 pm
RichardT wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:49 pm But I’m not thinking of the 1st generation, more like generation 10.

Of physics? Oh, I didn't realise it was still in development!

If so, I'd like to submit a feature request - please make it so my tea stays hot even if I've forgotten to drink it for a while...

Oh, and I guess simple and low-effort nuclear cold fusion would be fun, too.. :thumbup:

(But mostly the tea thing...)

I think an undo function would be my top feature request. I can see it would be difficult to implement.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by BJG145 »

I’m kind of surprised how many replies this got, considering the general lack of interest in other AR/VR threads. There’s nothing new here, though the resolution is impressive.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by RichardT »

BJG145 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:05 pm I’m kind of surprised how many replies this got, considering the general lack of interest in other AR/VR threads. There’s nothing new here, though the resolution is impressive.

I think there is - a new operating system for ‘spatial computing’. Instead of just sitting on top of an existing OS in a relatively passive way, the potential is now there for the device to integrate with software in a whole new way.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by Drew Stephenson »

I think there are many things that appear before their time, fade away and then get 're-invented' (or perhaps re-released) later on when other aspects of the world have caught up - either technical or social.
Tablet computers, touch-screen phones (or PDAs as they originally were), the internal combustion engine...
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by RichardT »

Drew Stephenson wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:03 pm Well that will certainly bring the cost down, but for rehearsal you really need to be thinking round-trip latency. So that's A-D conversion at one end + processing / batching up in source computer + transit time + unpacking + D-A at the other PLUS the same thing in reverse.
If we assume 2ms for each bit of conversion and packaging, then you could do a round trip between York and London in 10ms.

Which would be definitely acceptable.

But if you tried the same thing with London to New York, then your transit time (assuming speed of light in fibre rather than a vacuum) is about 26ms, so your round trip would be 60ms.

Which would be unworkable.

This is the only case I can think of where musicians are negatively affected by the speed of light…
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by RichardT »

Drew Stephenson wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:13 pm I think there are many things that appear before their time, fade away and then get 're-invented' (or perhaps re-released) later on when other aspects of the world have caught up - either technical or social.
Tablet computers, touch-screen phones (or PDAs as they originally were), the internal combustion engine...

The tablet computer example might be like this one - Microsoft brought out tablets well before Apple, but they just weren’t desirable.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by Drew Stephenson »

RichardT wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:21 pm The tablet computer example might be like this one - Microsoft brought out tablets well before Apple, but they just weren’t desirable.

That was the example that sprang to mind. But I remember trying out some Sony headsets with built in screens at a show back when I lived in Amsterdam (which was 1999 I think?).
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by RichardT »

Drew Stephenson wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:26 pm
RichardT wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:21 pm The tablet computer example might be like this one - Microsoft brought out tablets well before Apple, but they just weren’t desirable.

That was the example that sprang to mind. But I remember trying out some Sony headsets with built in screens at a show back when I lived in Amsterdam (which was 1999 I think?).

Back in the 1980s I had an idea for a ‘desktop computer’. The whole surface of the desk would be a display, and it would curve upward on the side away from the user so that some of it would be vertical. The user could move images of documents or anything else by touching them, and could scoot documents from the flat bit to the vertical bit by pushing them fast. The size of the images could change depending on their distance from the user so that they would be always legible.

It’s never happened. I think it would be a great way of working. With proper AR we could now have something like that, but better.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by sonics »

RichardT wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:37 pm Back in the 1980s I had an idea for a ‘desktop computer’.

Note quite as "futuristic", but a bit like the touchscreen monitors I started using more than five years ago. I can also move my mouse across monitors to go from my PC to Mac as I wish. I'm still fairly amazed by that. :)

I still like the screens, keyboard and mouse being physical objects. I'm sure many, especially the "analog brigade", will still want knobs to tweak, too.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by Drew Stephenson »

sonics wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:51 pm I still like the screens, keyboard and mouse being physical objects. I'm sure many, especially the "analog brigade", will still want knobs to tweak, too.

You rang sir? ;)

I've always found mouses (mice? mices?) very difficult things to use. My main machine now has a tracker-ball mouse which at least gives separation of function between click and movement (our Mac at work has one of their 'magic' mice and I find it absolutely hideous).
So even though I'm entirely in the box in terms of processing, I still have three different control surfaces to actually fiddle with things.

Going briefly back on topic, I do like the idea of being able to get rid of the physical screen - it helps acoustically to have nothing between speakers - and if you're not fussed about physical controls you could get rid of the desk entirely for further benefit.

But it would need to be really, really good to make it work. So as Richard says, maybe generation 10... ;)
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by BJG145 »

I look at Road to VR most days, so I was interested to see their take on it.

https://www.roadtovr.com/apple-vision-p ... n-preview/

I get the impression that it's a seriously good MR headset at a premium price. I still say that there's nothing we haven't seen before, but there's no doubt that it does it very well, and it could arguably be the best VR headset out there once the content is available.

There's VR (virtual reality) where you're in a virtual environment (Quest), AR (augmented reality) where VR elements are projected on a visible environment (Hololens), and MR (mixed reality) where VR elements are included in a camera-driven "pass-through" environment. Apple Vision Pro is MR.

It apparently has very high res, probably the best out there, and excellent tracking for hand and eye movement. Neither of those are new, but this is probably the best yet.

I take the point about the "spatial OS". You could say that any headset like the Quest 2 has a "spatial OS" - it runs its own standalone operating system with much of the same functionality - but it does seem like a more serious attempt to create an MR-centric OS rather than an MR bolt-on.

I'm slightly surprised that Apple seem to have focussed on the presentation of "flat" content - basically 2D screens presented around the user. I'd have thought VR content would be far more interesting. It seems capable of that, though it remains to be seen what VR apps/experiences will be available. I can't see many people shelling out this much cash to see virtual 2D monitors.

Do I want one...? Actually, not yet, but I'm open to persuasion if they create some kick-ass VR experiences. Can I afford one? Well, no. So I'm looking forward to Quest 3 instead.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by ManFromGlass »

I’m looking forward to assigning a very special hand or finger gesture to “Undo”, perhaps with an accompanying special word.
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Re: Apple Vision Pro

Post by tea for two »

Just seen vid of $379 XREAL Air AR glasses for Mac with upto 3 AR displays which can be combined for a single huge display.
Wonder whether Logic would be included in their supported apps.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_9r_d6Au0 ... VjaA%3D%3D
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