Logic Pro better than . . .?

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Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by Essex Boi »

It’s a question that’s been asked and answered many times - is Logic Pro better than DAW X? I’m not repeating that general question to which I’ll get as many answers as there are fans of each bit of software.

What I’m curious to know is - does Logic Pro make better (i.e. more efficient?) use of Apple hardware (specifically Apple Silicon) and system architecture than other DAWs? I know very little about what goes on inside that lump of aluminium on my desk (M1 Mini if it’s relevant) but intuitively I’d have thought software designed to run on only one operating system will suffer fewer compromises. Bonus points for links to actual tests and facts.

Finally if it’s relevant, I’m interested mainly in system performance as 1) a multitrack recorder for ‘real’ instruments and 2) ITB mixing and mastering.
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by muzines »

If you're interested comparing Logic's performance to whatever DAW you are currently using, Apple offer a 90-day free trial of Logic, that you can download and run on your specific system, and create your own tests with your plugins so you can see how things perform for you.

Generally, performance is very system, project, and third-party dependent, so running your own tests on your system is the best way to assess whatever gains, or not, you may see.

Let us know what you find! :thumbup:
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by Essex Boi »

muzines wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:01 pm If you're interested comparing Logic's performance to whatever DAW you are currently using, Apple offer a 90-day free trial of Logic, that you can download and run on your specific system, and create your own tests with your plugins so you can see how things perform for you.

Generally, performance is very system, project, and third-party dependent, so running your own tests on your system is the best way to assess whatever gains, or not, you may see.

Let us know what you find! :thumbup:

That’s good advice. Thanks. I have a week off soon. It’ll give me a purposeful challenge. Assuming I don’t get distracted creating ‘beats’ with Apple Loops or seeing if I can outfox the AI Drummer.
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by RichardT »

My guess is that an M1 machine will be powerful enough to run most DAWs very successfully - unless you are running very high track counts.
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by sonics »

I have noticed differences in efficiency when using different DAWs. Performance will also be linked to the sorts of plugins and instruments you're running, and what format(s) you use.

With so many variables, running a heavy session of your own is probably the only good way to gauge the results.

Personally, I am more interested in features and use than actual performance, and stability is at the very top of my list.

For other perspectives, take a look at what professionals use. If there are differences of note, you'll find them being talked about.
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by fatbenelton »

One area in which Logic is way better than most is that the upgrades are free.

Since I upgraded from Logic 9 to 10 in 2013 I haven’t paid anything for the constant updates - some significant. On the other hand my journey from Cubase 7 to 12 has cost me £100’s! Even if they eventually charge for a future Logic 11 I have already had 10 years of free updates.

So over the last 10 years - Logic £179 ( I think that was the original price??)
Cubase - over£600? Original price of c£250 for C7 and at least £79 for each increment...some of which I missed but you get the idea!

Other than Reaper (which is free) DP, PT, Studio One 7 Cubase all charge you for updates. £50-80 might not seem much but every year/18months for 10 years....
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by Essex Boi »

fatbenelton wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:08 pm One area in which Logic is way better than most is that the upgrades are free.

Since I upgraded from Logic 9 to 10 in 2013 I haven’t paid anything for the constant updates - some significant. On the other hand my journey from Cubase 7 to 12 has cost me £100’s! Even if they eventually charge for a future Logic 11 I have already had 10 years of free updates.

So over the last 10 years - Logic £179 ( I think that was the original price??)
Cubase - over£600? Original price of c£250 for C7 and at least £79 for each increment...some of which I missed but you get the idea!

Other than Reaper (which is free) DP, PT, Studio One 7 Cubase all charge you for updates. £50-80 might not seem much but every year/18months for 10 years....

Another good point. I moved to Reaper when my arthritic old Mac became incompatible with Logic (from 9 to 10 if I recall). I cannot remember exactly what went on, but I think the move to 64Bit caused compatibility issues. I now realise I could’ve just stopped upgrading but I didn’t know better back then.
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by Essex Boi »

sonics wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:42 pm I have noticed differences in efficiency when using different DAWs. Performance will also be linked to the sorts of plugins and instruments you're running, and what format(s) you use.

With so many variables, running a heavy session of your own is probably the only good way to gauge the results.

Personally, I am more interested in features and use than actual performance, and stability is at the very top of my list.

For other perspectives, take a look at what professionals use. If there are differences of note, you'll find them being talked about.

Thanks sonics. I hadn’t even considered the complexities and the specifics of each session. Not as straightforward as I’d imagined.
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by Wonks »

fatbenelton wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:08 pm Other than Reaper (which is free)

Reaper isn't free, though it is low cost ($60 for a non-commercial license, $225 for a commercial license). 60-day evaluation is free.

License covers all updates in the current version, and to the end of the next full version; e.g. it's currently V6.80 and license will run until V7.99. V8 will require a new license.
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by Dave Rowles »

fatbenelton wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:08 pm One area in which Logic is way better than most is that the upgrades are free.

Regrettably, I get the feeling Logic might be subscription come version 11...
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by fatbenelton »

Dave Rowles wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:59 pm
fatbenelton wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:08 pm One area in which Logic is way better than most is that the upgrades are free.

Regrettably, I get the feeling Logic might be subscription come version 11...


You may be right but I really hope not.
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by ConcertinaChap »

Dave Rowles wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:59 pm Regrettably

A kinder word than I would use.

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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by MOF »

Regrettably, I get the feeling Logic might be subscription come version 11...

Maybe not since it’s a selling point for the hardware.
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by OneWorld »

"Logic Pro better than . . .?" a kick up the ars*?

Seriously though, I don't think any single DAW is the equivalent of the Crystal Skull, each will have its merits and failings. I used it way way back in the day and liked it, until they stopped making for the PC, so I was then stumped and Cubase it was since then. I tried others, but kept going back to Cubase, mainly because of the excellent MIDI editing features, and in the later versions, the plugings which come with Cubase (well, Cubase Pro) are excellent
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by sonics »

Essex Boi wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:45 pm I hadn’t even considered the complexities and the specifics of each session. Not as straightforward as I’d imagined.

I didn't even mention the issues of hardware interface differences, external routing, monitoring requirements or latency!

The one thing that's easy to know is that a modern computer and DAW will handle most studio music-making scenarios quite easily. I remember when 8 tracks and about the same number of (not very good) plugins was all I could run, and I can now mix full records on a laptop! :old audio geek smiley:
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by Essex Boi »

Thanks everyone for taking time to reply.

I’ve ably demonstrated my naivety, failing to grasp that the DAW itself is possibly the least limiting link in the chain. Having got burned by compatibility problems in the past and suffered another close call recently (when I found my classic FireWire interface will not play with Apple silicon) I place increased importance on consistency and longevity.

My first forays into recording were with a cassette based Tascam Portastudio and a secondhand mic of indeterminate origin. Modern computers and software are indeed light years ahead and, for the most part, the differences between product A and product B are so marginal I doubt I could tell the difference.

I’m going to give the free trial of Logic a go. And, if I do jump over to it (from Reaper), I’ll be cautious about grabbing every software update that comes along. If I learned one thing it’s the latest shiny new thing is not necessarily better than what I already have.
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by MarkOne »

So from a functional perspective there probably isn’t anything between DAWs.

It depends what you do and how you make music.

For me Logic was the winner because the price was competitive, and as a keyboard player I was attracted to the insane amount of really good instruments. (Alchemy almost makes it worth the money in itself)

If you are just tracking and mixing in the more traditional sense, there’s probably loads of Logic features you’ll never touch.

I’ve messed around a bit with Ableton Live, and can see some of its workflow working for me, but at this stage, I’m so familiar with Logic, it will take something seismic to shift me.
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by ken long »

Worth mentioning workflow, much of which is UI dependent. I tend to get mixes done more efficiently in Pro Tools than in Logic but that's probably just me!
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by Essex Boi »

ken long wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 11:24 am Worth mentioning workflow, much of which is UI dependent. I tend to get mixes done more efficiently in Pro Tools than in Logic but that's probably just me!

Good point. I guess efficient workflow comes from a combination of familiarity, good habits, and the DAW’s overall approach chiming with the way you think and work. I like the idea of Pro Tools. Maybe I’ll take the free trial for a spin round the block.
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by Essex Boi »

MarkOne wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:55 am So from a functional perspective there probably isn’t anything between DAWs.

It depends what you do and how you make music.

For me Logic was the winner because the price was competitive, and as a keyboard player I was attracted to the insane amount of really good instruments. (Alchemy almost makes it worth the money in itself)

If you are just tracking and mixing in the more traditional sense, there’s probably loads of Logic features you’ll never touch.

I’ve messed around a bit with Ableton Live, and can see some of its workflow working for me, but at this stage, I’m so familiar with Logic, it will take something seismic to shift me.

It’s mainly ‘real’ instruments, though I recently bought an Arturia Keylab and have been dabbling with soft synths. Alchemy looks interesting, but I doubt I have the patience for sound design and I know for certain I won’t use Apple Loops and the Drummer and any of the GarageBand on steroids stuff.
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by BigRedX »

The "best" DAW is always the one you are most familiar with.

The other thing is how you actually use it. If all I did was record and mix audio files, I'd probably be perfectly happy with Reaper, but 90% of what I do is with plug-in instruments, so a DAW that has its roots in MIDI sequencing is always going to win out for me.

Apart from familiarity (I've been a user since V1.x) the big selling point for Logic for me now s the sheer number and quality of the plug-ins that come bundled with it. I have the grand total of THREE additional 3rd party plug-ins and I would probably abandon them all if compatibility became problematic.

I would hope that Logic doesn't become a subscription service. IME the upgrades to Logic tend to drive you towards hardware upgrades (and that's where the real money is for Apple). I'm currently stuck on 10.4.8 and missing out on lots a great features in the upgrades (and compatibility with our synth player's system), which is slowly driving me towards buying a new Mac.

The problem I would have with subscription service would be not the fact that it is subscription but the perceived VfM. I've currently an Adobe Creative Cloud subscriber (for my day job) and for my £50-ish per month I get access to 5 very different major applications that I use on a regular basis and loads more that I don't currently need but would be essentially "free" if I found myself in need of them. On top of that I have free access to the majority of fonts I need for me various clients. Based on that Logic would need to be around £5/month maximum in order to continue to be perceived as decent value.
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by Essex Boi »

Thanks BigRed. You’ve sort of confirmed what I thought. On the one hand Logic sits alongside Apple hardware and possibly uses it more efficiently than third party multi platform software. However the quid pro quo is that at some point you have to upgrade the hardware to access the latest features of the software. This exactly what I experienced a decade ago.

Like you’ve said, a move to a subscription model is possible. If that happens, I’m likely to walk even at £5 a month. I can swallow subscriptions when it’s for my business, but making music is a hobby and like you the VfM calculation is different.

I’m perfectly happy with Reaper and I won’t change unless Logic provides a measurable improvement, be that system performance (which is where I was going with my original question), workflow, features, or whatever. The bundled plugins seem to be well regarded and that may be enough on its own to win me over.

I’ll report back once I’ve had time with the free trial.
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by BigRedX »

The thing that has always put me off Reaper is the price of all the additional plus-in instruments I'd need to achieve what I do with the ones that come for free with Logic. Last time I looked I would need to spend a lot more than the cost of Logic to do this.
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by Kwackman »

BigRedX wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:31 pm The "best" DAW is always the one you are most familiar with.

:thumbup:
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by MarkOne »

BigRedX wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:20 pm The thing that has always put me off Reaper is the price of all the additional plus-in instruments I'd need to achieve what I do with the ones that come for free with Logic. Last time I looked I would need to spend a lot more than the cost of Logic to do this.

^^^ This
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by Bob Bickerton »

I think Logic is incredible value really.

There was a time when certain new Logic plugins were paid add-ons. I remember forking out the equivalent of 500 quid for their (then) revolutionary Space Designer plug-in around 2003. All included these days.

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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by 6120 »

Logic Pro for iPad is now subscription based and I read on one of the Mac magazines (maybe Macworld?) that Apple are seeing what pushback they get before they decide whether to go down this route for 11.
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by Arpangel »

I’ve been thinking of going from Reaper to Logic for ages, I know it’s not going to run on my old iMac, but I’m wondering if it’ll run on my newer MacBook Air M1 running Big Sur?
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by muzines »

The current version of Logic requires Monterey.

You can run older versions on Big Sur, but you won't be able to *buy* Logic on a Big Sur machine, as you can only make AppStore purchases for apps that work on the system you are buying it on (to avoid people buying software that then doesn't run on their machine).
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Re: Logic Pro better than . . .?

Post by Arpangel »

muzines wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2023 11:39 am The current version of Logic requires Monterey.

You can run older versions on Big Sur, but you won't be able to *buy* Logic on a Big Sur machine, as you can only make AppStore purchases for apps that work on the system you are buying it on (to avoid people buying software that then doesn't run on their machine).

Yeah, I just noticed that, I can’t do it, as my other important progs won’t work on anything later than Big Sur, same old computer issues.
I could trash the whole system and start again, but it’s not worth it.
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